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Post by katieanna on Feb 23, 2015 13:59:25 GMT
I find it offensive when people choose to disregard THEIR OWN beliefs to appease the beliefs of family members. If the church is so important to your future family members, why would they want someone who DOESN'T believe to make a farce of their sacred ceremonies? Why should someone who apparently loves and cares for someone else, want that person to LIE, to make them happy? Why is a LIE a good thing? Why is it so expected that people who don't believe cater to the feelings of the believers? I agree with this. If neither of you believe, then why be forced into a ceremony for those who do? This is YOUR wedding so who does the farce benefit? I know you don't want to upset your fiancé's relatives and I understand that. I hope that you both can come to a compromise that will suit both of you without upsetting your relatives but at this point it sounds like that isn't possible without upsetting some one. Remember - you have to do what's best for both of you. I hope you find that answer before the big day. And - Congratulations on your upcoming wedding.
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Deleted
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May 7, 2024 14:09:37 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 14:09:02 GMT
Good luck, Grinning Cat! I'm sure you'll find a solution that makes you and your husband-to-be happy.
Your in-laws should be as concerned about making YOU happy and welcoming you into the family as much as some people are suggestion you should be concerned for them!
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grinningcat
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Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Feb 23, 2015 14:14:38 GMT
I find it offensive when people choose to disregard THEIR OWN beliefs to appease the beliefs of family members. If the church is so important to your future family members, why would they want someone who DOESN'T believe to make a farce of their sacred ceremonies? Why should someone who apparently loves and cares for someone else, want that person to LIE, to make them happy? Why is a LIE a good thing? Why is it so expected that people who don't believe cater to the feelings of the believers? I agree with this. If neither of you believe, then why be forced into a ceremony for those who do? This is YOUR wedding so who does the farce benefit? I know you don't want to upset your fiancé's relatives and I understand that. I hope that you both can come to a compromise that will suit both of you without upsetting your relatives but at this point it sounds like that isn't possible without upsetting some one. Remember - you have to do what's best for both of you. I hope you find that answer before the big day. And - Congratulations on your upcoming wedding. Honestly? I'm starting to think that it's more of a "that's the way it's done" kind of thing than an actual religious thing. This is part and parcel with the arguements we were having over the venue. They do things a specific way, my family is more free-spirited. They want things a specific way because that's how they believe things are done, my family is more "do what you think is right and special for you". The reason I think this is because of the family gatherings I've been to. Things can be very rigid in the sense of what's done, there's very little deviation or openings for change. At least that's the perception. So I think they are stuck on a church wedding because that's how it's been done and how it's supposed to be done. At least I'm starting to think that's what it is. That and they do have some people who are strong in their faith. And I am glad that they are. But just because they are strong in their faith doesn't mean that I have to be, my SO has to be or that we have to do the things that make them strong in their faith because that's how they believe it's done. It's an interesting dynamic. One that's hard to get used to, we don't have a lot of "that's how it's done" in my family. Hell, we have three weddings this year and each one couldn't be more different than the other! And that's what's awesome.
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Feb 23, 2015 14:18:47 GMT
Good luck, Grinning Cat! I'm sure you'll find a solution that makes you and your husband-to-be happy. Your in-laws should be as concerned about making YOU happy and welcoming you into the family as much as some people are suggestion you should be concerned for them! Thanks. I'm honestly more concerned about them being kinder to my SO. It hurts me to see them treat him rather callously at times and it doesn't make me want to be very gracious to them. So it's this crazy balance of trying to make everyone happy. I'm just happy that my family welcomed him with open arms without demands and that he has a family that seems to love him without issue. I think there's a lot of "keeping up with the Joneses" or at least keeping up appearances that they think is important. I don't know. I have many theories as to why this is an issue, but I'm not really sure exactly what they are. Or if I'm right. We will find a way that makes us happy. As my brother said shortly after we got engaged, "there's no way that you'll please everyone so don't even bother. Do what makes you happy and those who aren't happy with that can go shovel snow". And that's what we're doing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 14:34:09 GMT
Families are weird. All of this makes me very glad that I didn't have a wedding. Hearing after DD1 was born, from one of Dh's aunts, "Do you think that your FIL is upset about the birth of the baby because he knows the baby is going to go to Hell because you won't have her baptized" was bad enough!!!
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likescarrots
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Aug 16, 2014 17:52:53 GMT
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Post by likescarrots on Feb 23, 2015 14:35:54 GMT
Ugh, the whole thing sounds awful. I vote for eloping. But that's what I did to avoid all of this junk anyway, so thanks for reinforcing that I made the right decision.
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Post by katieanna on Feb 23, 2015 14:43:49 GMT
I was raised Catholic and I remember how ingrained some of those beliefs had become so in that respect, I understand where your fiancé's relatives are coming from. It may even be hard for them to understand your feelings on this and that's why, I think, it may be difficult to please everyone.
Absolutely. At this point the best way to handle it is through communication. I can see having a priest say a prayer, that sort of thing, and that performing a mass would be out of the question. Hopefully, your fiancé's Catholic relatives will understand that. Personally, I think that if they know how you both feel, it wouldn't be an issue but then again, it can be difficult for those who are strong in Catholicism to see it that way.
I hope it all works out for you.
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Deleted
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May 7, 2024 14:09:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 14:44:33 GMT
Just my halfpenny's worth You have two options one isn't going to please you and the other isn't going to fulfill your future MIL wish! Yes, you can be married in a Catholic church without the mass. I've been to many that both bride & groom are Catholic but they chose not to have the mass. There would be no valid reason to refuse you from getting married there because both you and your FDH have been christened into the Catholic faith. It's immaterial what your belief is now or your FDH. As far as the Catholic Church is concerned you are a cradle Catholic so in that regard you are entitled to be married in church. The ceremony is laid out as it is for everyone but you are allowed to choose your own selection of readings & music from an approved suitable list. I'm almost certain you won't be allowed to pick & choose what you want and don't from the actual service. It's a standard worded service except for the choice of readings, music & hymns etc). As you are quite adamant that you don't want this kind of ceremony or a church wedding ( and rightly so,as that is yours & FDH's choice) then this would not be at all suitable. Now on to your FMIL - I can understand WHY she wants her son to be married in a Catholic Church. Her belief whether she is a practicing Catholic or not is that she would like & wish for God's blessing on that marriage and those vows would be made in a " House of God" by a Priest, who in her eyes is a sort of mediator between us ( general us ) and God if that makes sense. As you probably know,the belief of the Catholic church is such that if you're not married by a Priest in Church then you are actually living in sin! Rightly or wrongly that is their belief. If this is the reason that your FMIL wants a church wedding and you and your FDH are going to choose a civil wedding outside of these parameters I can guarantee you that it would not satisfy your FMIL's wishes even if you find a Priest that is willing to come along and give a blessing. From your FMIL view point he still didn't "marry" you. Does that make sense? It's my belief that you would have to find a pretty liberal and modern day Priest for him to perform a blessing on a marriage which,in his belief and his teaching would be a sin. You're asking him to put aside all his beliefs to bless a marriage that hasn't happened according to the teaching of the Church he represents. I admire you in standing your ground but I do think that you need to have a serious talk with your FDH and work this out together - just the two of you and do what YOU BOTH want and stick to that decision. If you feel so strongly that you don't want to get married in church because you don't believe in God then it would be really hypocritical of you to do so. In the same way that if your FMIL expects you to, then she is equally as hypocritical because she knows that it doesn't mean anything to you. I wish you luck and hope that your FMIL will understand your reasons.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 14:50:00 GMT
We will find a way that makes us happy. As my brother said shortly after we got engaged, "there's no way that you'll please everyone so don't even bother. Do what makes you happy and those who aren't happy with that can go shovel snow". And that's what we're doing. I agree. Have the wedding you and FDH wants, everyone else can just get over it IMO and they usually do eventually.
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grinningcat
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Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Feb 23, 2015 15:00:08 GMT
Families are weird. All of this makes me very glad that I didn't have a wedding. Hearing after DD1 was born, from one of Dh's aunts, "Do you think that your FIL is upset about the birth of the baby because he knows the baby is going to go to Hell because you won't have her baptized" was bad enough!!! Gross. That's a horrible comment. We want to celebrate our marriage with the people that we love and care about... thus the refusal to do a 300 person wedding with everyone and their dog invited. I
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Feb 23, 2015 15:01:43 GMT
Ugh, the whole thing sounds awful. I vote for eloping. But that's what I did to avoid all of this junk anyway, so thanks for reinforcing that I made the right decision. My cousin was planning the big wedding and then changed to Cuba because of family pressures. I totally understand that. Eloping was never a thing for me, and overall the wedding planning has been fun and interesting. It's just been a couple of weird pressure points that have caused issues. I become less giving and open, the more I am criticized about things that are supposed to be good things for everyone involved. When you're ungrateful, I become less likely to play nicely. Thus possibly a part of the issue.
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Feb 23, 2015 15:07:23 GMT
I was raised Catholic and I remember how ingrained some of those beliefs had become so in that respect, I understand where your fiancé's relatives are coming from. It may even be hard for them to understand your feelings on this and that's why, I think, it may be difficult to please everyone. Absolutely. At this point the best way to handle it is through communication. I can see having a priest say a prayer, that sort of thing, and that performing a mass would be out of the question. Hopefully, your fiancé's Catholic relatives will understand that. Personally, I think that if they know how you both feel, it wouldn't be an issue but then again, it can be difficult for those who are strong in Catholicism to see it that way. I hope it all works out for you. It's possible that because I was born into a Catholic family and received all the sacrements, that I still believe in them. So maybe I am confusing them with not doing a Mass. It's not like I shouted "I AM AN ATHEIST" at a family gathering, so it's possible that they think I am just lapsed like my FH. I think a prayer or a blessing would be lovely within a secular ceremony. I have no issue with that. I just don't want a fully religious ceremony. So we will go to this meeting and see what happens. This may all be for naught and we'll be booking an officiant.
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Feb 23, 2015 15:08:34 GMT
We will find a way that makes us happy. As my brother said shortly after we got engaged, "there's no way that you'll please everyone so don't even bother. Do what makes you happy and those who aren't happy with that can go shovel snow". And that's what we're doing. I agree. Have the wedding you and FDH wants, everyone else can just get over it IMO and they usually do eventually. Agreed. I'm at the point that if they don't get over it, that's their fault not mine and I'm not going to grovel to get them to either see it my way or to redeem myself. If they don't come, it's less people to pay for and we'll know who truly cares for us more than keeping up appearances.
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Feb 23, 2015 15:12:31 GMT
Just my halfpenny's worth You have two options one isn't going to please you and the other isn't going to fulfill your future MIL wish! Now on to your FMIL - I can understand WHY she wants her son to be married in a Catholic Church. Her belief whether she is a practicing Catholic or not is that she would like & wish for God's blessing on that marriage and those vows would be made in a " House of God" by a Priest, who in her eyes is a sort of mediator between us ( general us ) and God if that makes sense. As you probably know,the belief of the Catholic church is such that if you're not married by a Priest in Church then you are actually living in sin! Rightly or wrongly that is their belief. The funny thing is that we're already "living in sin" and when he announced his intention to ask me his dad (who is very much a traditionalist as well) said, "why? you're already living together"! That cracked me up, so I'm no longer sure they care that we're living in sin. But yes, the church would think we are. Just had to share that story because it cracks me up.
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Deleted
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May 7, 2024 14:09:38 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 15:17:45 GMT
Just my halfpenny's worth You have two options one isn't going to please you and the other isn't going to fulfill your future MIL wish! Now on to your FMIL - I can understand WHY she wants her son to be married in a Catholic Church. Her belief whether she is a practicing Catholic or not is that she would like & wish for God's blessing on that marriage and those vows would be made in a " House of God" by a Priest, who in her eyes is a sort of mediator between us ( general us ) and God if that makes sense. As you probably know,the belief of the Catholic church is such that if you're not married by a Priest in Church then you are actually living in sin! Rightly or wrongly that is their belief. The funny thing is that we're already "living in sin" and when he announced his intention to ask me his dad (who is very much a traditionalist as well) said, "why? you're already living together"! That cracked me up, so I'm no longer sure they care that we're living in sin. But yes, the church would think we are. Just had to share that story because it cracks me up. That's funny. Stand your ground now though because if you don't there will be other times in the future. If she was a reasonable MIL she would understand your point of view. Nothing wrong in telling her that you don't want to be seen as a hypocrite she might take the hint
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 23, 2015 15:22:30 GMT
I was a Catholic when I got married the first time. My exDH was not. He was not baptized either. What we were told is that we were not eligible (much to my mother's dismay) for a full mass at our wedding because he was unbaptized. So we had the short ceremony. We did have to go through the premarital counseling through the church. And the priest was very upfront with us that he would not perform any marriage ceremony at a location other than the church. Even in the short ceremony, you have the gospel reading and the homily. You get to pick your readings for your wedding, though. It just sounds to me, though, like you aren't interested in getting married in a Catholic ceremony and I would just be upfront about it. Maybe you can have some other kind of religious person perform your ceremony, off-site, that is more like religion-lite. My sister had a female reverend do her marriage ceremony and it was not nearly as heavy with religious overtones as my wedding in the Catholic church. This might be able to satisfy everyone. That's exactly it. I wouldn't balk at a religious reading at all. I've always loved the "love is patient" reading and would be more than happy to have that read at our ceremony. Even a prayer of some ilk would be fine (as long as it doesn't drone on and on). I just don't want a ceremony that would be a farce, and a Catholic ceremony would be just that to me. I have told my FH that I don't want a religious wedding. He just wants me to go to this meeting to "find out" what we can do. He's buckling under his parent's demand for this. So I'm going, even though I have secular officiants all ready to go. I really do appreciate everyone's perspective. It's helping me to figure out my own feelings about this and to get an idea of what to expect. What are your FH's true feelings about religion and the role it should play in your lives--not just in the wedding but with your future children (have you talked about having kids or not?)? Your posts make it seem like this is all about you vs your in-laws but your FH has opinions in this as well. Perhaps he feels more strongly than you think but is buckling to YOUR pressure to leave religion/tradition behind? Saying that you will leave it up to him if he chooses to raise your possible children Catholic is not realistic. Your animosity towards the church would for sure show through and cause problems with your plan of leaving it to him. I can only speak for myself, but I was raised Catholic but would not consider myself to be one now. Until I had kids, I didn't really think about religion much. I am not quite sure what I believe to be true, but in the last few years I have really struggled with wanting my kids to have an exposure to religion, the community that is there when you find he right church. I can respect the Cathlic religion and why the traditions have meaning to others, but for me it wasn't enough. I have found a church that the kids and I love. When we leave there, we feel good and feel like what the pastor had to say related to our lives today, not just what could have happened 2000 years ago. Anyway, my point is that my DH refuses to go. That is fine, but it would be so much better (IMO) if he would be more supportive of it and attend with us. Religion wasn't really something that we discussed before our wedding (in the Catholic church) but it has become more of an issue as we have gotten older and had kids. I definitely think it is one of those topics that should be talked about in depth before getting married (along with finances, role expectations in the marriage, family planning, parenting styles, social expectations, etc).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 15:27:28 GMT
I'm not going to say a word about the religion thing, I just hope that what ever gets decided you have a wonderful day and a wonderful future together.
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grinningcat
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Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Feb 23, 2015 15:52:18 GMT
That's exactly it. I wouldn't balk at a religious reading at all. I've always loved the "love is patient" reading and would be more than happy to have that read at our ceremony. Even a prayer of some ilk would be fine (as long as it doesn't drone on and on). I just don't want a ceremony that would be a farce, and a Catholic ceremony would be just that to me. I have told my FH that I don't want a religious wedding. He just wants me to go to this meeting to "find out" what we can do. He's buckling under his parent's demand for this. So I'm going, even though I have secular officiants all ready to go. I really do appreciate everyone's perspective. It's helping me to figure out my own feelings about this and to get an idea of what to expect. What are your FH's true feelings about religion and the role it should play in your lives--not just in the wedding but with your future children (have you talked about having kids or not?)? Your posts make it seem like this is all about you vs your in-laws but your FH has opinions in this as well. Perhaps he feels more strongly than you think but is buckling to YOUR pressure to leave religion/tradition behind? Saying that you will leave it up to him if he chooses to raise your possible children Catholic is not realistic. Your animosity towards the church would for sure show through and cause problems with your plan of leaving it to him. I can only speak for myself, but I was raised Catholic but would not consider myself to be one now. Until I had kids, I didn't really think about religion much. I am not quite sure what I believe to be true, but in the last few years I have really struggled with wanting my kids to have an exposure to religion, the community that is there when you find he right church. I can respect the Cathlic religion and why the traditions have meaning to others, but for me it wasn't enough. I have found a church that the kids and I love. When we leave there, we feel good and feel like what the pastor had to say related to our lives today, not just what could have happened 2000 years ago. Anyway, my point is that my DH refuses to go. That is fine, but it would be so much better (IMO) if he would be more supportive of it and attend with us. Religion wasn't really something that we discussed before our wedding (in the Catholic church) but it has become more of an issue as we have gotten older and had kids. I definitely think it is one of those topics that should be talked about in depth before getting married (along with finances, role expectations in the marriage, family planning, parenting styles, social expectations, etc). His feelings are important to me. Not sure why you think I'm not honouring them. If I wasn't, I would have gone all bridezilla and say "ABSOLUTELY NOT" to anything religious. As far as I've seen and we've talked about, he's pretty indifferent. His standard response to "when are you going to church" is "when they pay me" (he's been paid by this church for work at events in the past). To my knowledge, he never prays openly. He does make the sign of the cross and that sort of thing when we have been at funerals but it almost seems ingrained versus actually doing it (I've caught myself almost doing it a couple times because it's so ingrained). I don't think I'm pressuring him about it at all. He didn't want a church wedding and I didn't want a church gym reception. So I really don't think I've pressured him, because other than this ceremony, religion has really played no part in our relationship. If there's a family event like a confirmation or funeral, I dress appropriately and go to the service, sit quietly and respectfully and support the family, as I think is proper to do. Could my animosity show? Sure. I would make sure that any possible children would be exposed to more than just the Catholic religion but I think that faith is something people, even kids, need to make on their own. I don't think parents can force it on their kids. I see one of his aunts forcing it on her son and I can see him pulling away much like I did. So if he wants Catholic children, it will have to be his responsibility to maintain it. I can't do it since I don't believe. I would drive them to classes or events that they have to attend if he couldn't. I don't think I would attend regularly with him, but would if it was important and I was asked to (but I am very greedy about my Sunday morning alone time). I honestly don't see SO attending regularly either, he works a lot of Sunday events... ironically many of them are church events now that I think of it. So I really don't know where things would be in that regard. Children really aren't in the future picture anyway, neither of us are keen. Though I know we will get pressure for it, but again, that's none of their business. We'll have to talk about religion moreso when it comes to this meeting, but I think we're closer about our feelings towards religion than you think. I think he may be on the atheist cusp, but that's not my decision to make. That's his. And if he's not, well he's not. Again, not my decision to make. Considering how little religion plays in our day to day, it really feels like a moot point. But that could change.
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Post by padresfan619 on Feb 23, 2015 15:57:26 GMT
Who is paying for the wedding? Neither my husband or I are religious so we didn't have a religious ceremony. It upset his mother, but she wasn't the one paying for the wedding, we were.
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Feb 23, 2015 16:05:47 GMT
Who is paying for the wedding? Neither my husband or I are religious so we didn't have a religious ceremony. It upset his mother, but she wasn't the one paying for the wedding, we were. They aren't, which is the funny thing. We are along with a very generous donation from my parents. His parents cannot afford to, nor do I expect them to pay for anything (they are having money issues, and I would much prefer they take care of themselves). They have also said that they are traditionalists and that traditionally the bride's family pays for everything and that the groom's family is really just there for the ride (to which I asked my FH if we'd gone back to the 50s and I'd missed the memo) and then in the next breath they are telling us what we should and shouldn't do. Sometimes they want it both ways. But they can't. So really, they don't have a say. My parents think we have made sound decisions based upon good logic and decisions and are supporting us. They also do not have any outrageous demands (the only one they've ever made about my wedding is no eloping, that they want to be present). I am very grateful for my father saying to me (after grilling me about a variety of choices, from venue, to flowers, to attendants, to cake), "you are on a good road. I am proud of you. It sounds like you're doing this in a smart way." I was very touched. He's very much a money guy (was a manager and business owner before he retired), so him thinking that I am doing this soundly means a lot to me. I just wish we had the same support on both sides.
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Post by iamkristinl16 on Feb 23, 2015 16:12:20 GMT
Grinningcat--I posted before reading all of the posts. I just finished reading more (was not going to originally since I should be doing some work!) but see that in later posts you did mention his beliefs and opinions more than in the ones on the first page.
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AmeliaBloomer
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Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Feb 23, 2015 17:59:24 GMT
I'm skimming, but didn't see this addressed: During a Catholic wedding ceremony, mass or not, you are asked, "Will you accept children lovingly from God, and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?" So, not planning to even HAVE children is problematic. Also, both of you being baptized Catholics makes it less likely that a priest will agree to non-traditional requests or suggest seeking dispensations. You're expected to toe the line more. There are rogue priests out there, but they're increasingly rare. The Church is attracting very conservative seminarians, and even old-school hippie priests are under a lot of pressure to follow the rules. Good luck. I admire your willingness to look into options. Wouldn't it be nice to impose gag orders on families during wedding planning?
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grinningcat
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Post by grinningcat on Feb 23, 2015 18:40:04 GMT
I'm skimming, but didn't see this addressed: During a Catholic wedding ceremony, mass or not, you are asked, "Will you accept children lovingly from God, and bring them up according to the law of Christ and his Church?" So, not planning to even HAVE children is problematic. Also, both of you being baptized Catholics makes it less likely that a priest will agree to non-traditional requests or suggest seeking dispensations. You're expected to toe the line more. There are rogue priests out there, but they're increasingly rare. The Church is attracting very conservative seminarians, and even old-school hippie priests are under a lot of pressure to follow the rules. Good luck. I admire your willingness to look into options. Wouldn't it be nice to impose gag orders on families during wedding planning? I don't ever remember hearing that question at any of the Catholic weddings I've been to. Or maybe I just wasn't paying attention! I've already broken enough "rules" in regards to what the Catholic church expects for procreation... what's one more? (I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Put the pitchforks away). But yes, that causes one more issue for sure. Gag orders would be lovely. At least for a couple people. Others, thankfully, have been lovely and incredibly helpful.
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AmeliaBloomer
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Jun 26, 2014 5:01:45 GMT
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Post by AmeliaBloomer on Feb 23, 2015 22:05:57 GMT
I don't ever remember hearing that question at any of the Catholic weddings I've been to. Or maybe I just wasn't paying attention! That's 'cause you were distracted by the bridesmaids' updos. But seriously, before the actual vows start, the priest questions your intentions. Basically: 1. You really want to be here, right? 2. This union is for life, right? 3. You'll welcome children, right? More seriously, confirm all "rules" or canon law being asserted on this thread, including what I'm claiming. You need it from the "horse's mouth" - especially if that horse is wearing a Roman collar.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2015 22:25:38 GMT
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Post by M~ on Feb 24, 2015 1:51:06 GMT
Hmm......I'll be surprised if you find a Catholic priest who will marry you outside of a church.
My understanding is that even though you consider yourself an atheist, you are considered a Catholic because you are baptized in the Church.
Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't even bother. I am nowhere near close a relationship, but honestly just from reading your past posting history here and on the other message board, I'm more stunned that you would even consider this. You've always struck me as someone who has VERY DEFINITE ideas (which I appreciate because I am the same way). I would have expected you to start as you continue to go on and not bend to your MILs unreasonable expectations. And, honestly, to me, they are very unreasonable expectations. You are an atheist. Your FH knows this. I would really have a problem if he was swayed by his family on this issue--to me, that would be sort a HUGE clue as to how he would behave in the future. I think if you put your foot down and carry on how you intended to from the beginning (completely secular) that would send her a definite message that you don't intend to be a wallflower.
Just my humbe 2 cents.
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mallie
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Post by mallie on Feb 24, 2015 2:03:55 GMT
My ILs were very similar. My advice to you based on 3+ decades of experience watching this sort of dynamic and set of expectations is to begin as you mean to go on. When you give in once, it creates an expectation that if they press hard enough, you will give in. And they will keep pressing and pressing forever. Seriously.
My dh and I stood up to my ILs from the beginning and did what we wanted with our wedding. They threatened not to come. We said fine. They came. And basically gave up on trying to persuade or pressure us on these matters because they decided we were too stubborn. His siblings caved and have spent the last 3 decades being pressured and pushed around on these (and other) matters. I will never forget at my niece's baptism, the priest asked why the parents brought their daughter for baptism and my BIL blurted out, "To shut my parents up." Ah, what a lovely, spiritual, meaningful moment. Today, that niece is herself a mother and she is pressured by my ILs on religious and lifestyle matters. In fact, one of the reasons she moved 3000 miles away was to avoid their attempts at pressure and interference in her life.
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Feb 24, 2015 13:42:22 GMT
Hmm......I'll be surprised if you find a Catholic priest who will marry you outside of a church. My understanding is that even though you consider yourself an atheist, you are considered a Catholic because you are baptized in the Church. Honestly, if I were you, I wouldn't even bother. I am nowhere near close a relationship, but honestly just from reading your past posting history here and on the other message board, I'm more stunned that you would even consider this. You've always struck me as someone who has VERY DEFINITE ideas (which I appreciate because I am the same way). I would have expected you to start as you continue to go on and not bend to your MILs unreasonable expectations. And, honestly, to me, they are very unreasonable expectations. You are an atheist. Your FH knows this. I would really have a problem if he was swayed by his family on this issue--to me, that would be sort a HUGE clue as to how he would behave in the future. I think if you put your foot down and carry on how you intended to from the beginning (completely secular) that would send her a definite message that you don't intend to be a wallflower. Just my humbe 2 cents. I don't think my attempts to make my FH a part of the wedding and find things that are meaningful to him makes me a wallflower. I don't think I am a wallflower in any way or in any part of this wedding. I've already put my foot down on the venue and the caterer, they wanted the caterer they use (that offers 4 different meats, a gazillion veg and starch for the main course) and host it in the church gym because that was what they wanted and because it's cheaper than the venue we're now booked at. According to them, we are wasting our money at this venue and wouldn't hear that it would basically cost the same as their cheap ass church gym once we rented everything and put a lot of money into decorating the room so it didn't look like a gym. So yeah, I put my foot down that I didn't want a church gym for a venue (seriously, if I wanted basketball hoops at my wedding, I would have a basketball them. I don't so I won't), so I can guarantee that they know I am not a wallflower. I am investigating this priest thing for my FH because he has expressed interest after his mother told him that she'd prefer to see us married by a priest. So I'm not giving in to her, I'm not buckling under and I'm sure as hell not a wallflower when it comes to this, I am trying to find out what the best option is for the two of us, for a ceremony that has a lot of significance for both of us. Chances are we won't be married by a priest due to the church rules, and I expect that. I've already said multiple times that I am open to having a blessing or a prayer by said priest (or someone in his family). If she had said to me "I expect you to be married by the church", I would have balked more at this. However, that's not how it happened, it was a conversation between mother and son that turned into something FH wanted to look into, so that's what I am doing. I thought I was fairly open about that.
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quiltz
Drama Llama
Posts: 6,698
Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on Feb 24, 2015 13:50:38 GMT
Wishing you much peace as you search for "your meaningful ceremony".
You will find the right fit for the both of you. I don't think that future in-laws should be involved.
Weddings and funerals always bring out a dark side of a family.
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grinningcat
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,663
Jun 26, 2014 13:06:35 GMT
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Post by grinningcat on Feb 24, 2015 13:51:48 GMT
My ILs were very similar. My advice to you based on 3+ decades of experience watching this sort of dynamic and set of expectations is to begin as you mean to go on. When you give in once, it creates an expectation that if they press hard enough, you will give in. And they will keep pressing and pressing forever. Seriously. My dh and I stood up to my ILs from the beginning and did what we wanted with our wedding. They threatened not to come. We said fine. They came. And basically gave up on trying to persuade or pressure us on these matters because they decided we were too stubborn. His siblings caved and have spent the last 3 decades being pressured and pushed around on these (and other) matters. I will never forget at my niece's baptism, the priest asked why the parents brought their daughter for baptism and my BIL blurted out, "To shut my parents up." Ah, what a lovely, spiritual, meaningful moment. Today, that niece is herself a mother and she is pressured by my ILs on religious and lifestyle matters. In fact, one of the reasons she moved 3000 miles away was to avoid their attempts at pressure and interference in her life. I'm sorry, I snorted at "to shut my parents up". That's awesome. And truthful. I have no idea what my parents would do if we had kids and the whole baptism thing. I don't really remember them saying anything about my nieces and nephews, though I think them being surprised that my sister had them baptised. But I could be wrong. I can see a lot of pressure from his side. I don't really see the point, but if he wants it done, we'll do it. I won't push it, I won't stop it. We can make the decision about that much as we are making this decision. I'm really not one to be pushed around (shocking, I know) and we've already stood up to them about the venue. Seriously, they tell us that they are traditionalists and traditionally the groom's family doesn't contribute financially or to the planning (which prompted my snarky comment of "did I miss the teleport back to the 1950s?") but then were making demands about their caterer and their venue (church gym). My answer from the very beginning was that if we weren't doing a backyard wedding (initial plan) we will not be in a church gym or hall, period. I didn't want that before, definitely didn't want the same venue as his sister, and I wanted a venue that was both accomodating, reasonably priced and beautiful. We found that in our location that we are now booked at. But they made snarky comments and sarcasm about it until it was booked. After, FH had a chat with his mom basically saying "it's booked, so no more snark no more sarcasm. If you want to be a part of this, that all stops now." We're oddly in radio silence right now, which is fine. Just means I don't have to deal with it. But also makes me sad because I had foolishly hoped that the planning would bring us together to collaborate. But I'm pretty sure they know that we are not ones to be pushed around, and if that makes us the black sheep... so be it. We will always have family on my side, even if his act douchy about our decisions.
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