cycworker
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Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Aug 4, 2015 17:33:19 GMT
It's about the wording. Can't isn't an honest word choice. It's putting the responsibility on the school. DD isn't taking ownership; she's not simply owning her adult right to say no, I'm not willing to do that. Umm, we are simply reading mom's account of things. We have absolutely NO CLUE what the daughter's exact wording was. Oy. No need to assume the daughter is lying and then hold onto that assumption so tightly when called on it. For all we know, the daughter did say that she wasn't willing to watch the dogs and when mom asked "why not?" daughter replies that she didn't want to miss the first day of classes and when mom asked again "why not?" she said that she would get dropped from classes. It could have been that the daughter did say she wasn't willing, but mom pushed for reasons. The exact dialogue could have been any number of things. To assume the daughter is a lying brat is a huge leap. Now THAT I concede is fair. i guess for me, I wouldn't have entertained the why not questions (if it happened that way). I'd simply reaffirm the boundary I'd set - I'm not willing to miss the first day. Period. Full stop.
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quiltz
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Location: CANADA
Jun 29, 2014 16:13:28 GMT
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Post by quiltz on Aug 4, 2015 17:36:58 GMT
Why are the dogs more important than the daughter? To me, that's what the decision boils down to. I agree. Since when are dogs more important than the daughter? Are animals more important than people?
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Post by elaine on Aug 4, 2015 17:45:43 GMT
Umm, we are simply reading mom's account of things. We have absolutely NO CLUE what the daughter's exact wording was. Oy. No need to assume the daughter is lying and then hold onto that assumption so tightly when called on it. For all we know, the daughter did say that she wasn't willing to watch the dogs and when mom asked "why not?" daughter replies that she didn't want to miss the first day of classes and when mom asked again "why not?" she said that she would get dropped from classes. It could have been that the daughter did say she wasn't willing, but mom pushed for reasons. The exact dialogue could have been any number of things. To assume the daughter is a lying brat is a huge leap. Now THAT I concede is fair. i guess for me, I wouldn't have entertained the why not questions (if it happened that way). I'd simply reaffirm the boundary I'd set - I'm not willing to miss the first day. Period. Full stop. Reaffirming boundaries is certainly the ideal we all strive for, but considering the number of women here in their 30s, 40s and 50s who can't simply reaffirm boundaries they have set with their parents, I think it is harsh to judge a 21 y.o. as a brat if or when she fails to do so.
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Post by abr79 on Aug 4, 2015 17:51:48 GMT
Now THAT I concede is fair. i guess for me, I wouldn't have entertained the why not questions (if it happened that way). I'd simply reaffirm the boundary I'd set - I'm not willing to miss the first day. Period. Full stop. Reaffirming boundaries is certainly the ideal we all strive for, but considering the number of women here in their 30s, 40s and 50s who can't simply reaffirm boundaries they have set with their parents, I think it is harsh to judge a 21 y.o. as a brat if or when she fails to do so. exactly. I'm almost 36 and I still have a hard time telling my mother the "whole truth"...I often say I can't do something when the truth is I don't really want to. But dammit, I don't want to deal with the guilt trip and the other fun stuff my mother is known for. I think it's probably best for me to bow out of this conversation though, because clearly I have mother issues.
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AnotherPea
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Posts: 2,968
Jan 4, 2015 1:47:52 GMT
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Post by AnotherPea on Aug 4, 2015 17:56:09 GMT
I agree that first day of class is more important than dog sitting.
But I'm iffy about "no is a complete sentence " bit when it comes to family. Of course it all comes down to who is in your family, but if my adult daughter was that rude when I made a request I probably wouldn't be eager to do her many favors down the road.
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Deleted
Posts: 0
May 7, 2024 6:18:31 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2015 18:08:31 GMT
Hmmm. I didn't read it that way re the boyfriend. Again - my biggest problem/issue is that regardless of how we interpret the fb piece the dd is still lying. If DD wants to be an adult she needs to act like one and just tell mom the truth. It isn't that she CAN'T call her profs and let the know she'll be away first day but she's still claiming the seat. Mom has already checked and that's allowed. It's that she doesn't WANT to. I hate it when people claim they can't do something when the truth is they simply don't want to. What exactly is wrong with putting her own wants above her parents wishes? I wouldn't want to miss the first day of school either, it paints a bad picture of commitment level and character. I know you believe that family comes before absolutely everything else but it's not the case for everyone.
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Post by mellowyellow on Aug 4, 2015 18:10:51 GMT
I didn't get from the OP that DD was lying. She doesn't want to miss class....either she can't or she won't...I think it's all the same here. I applaud her for not wanting to miss class. It would have to be an emergency before I would miss any class when I was in college. They took attendance in every one of my classes and one time my attendance is what helped me out!
And let's face it...I think we all at one time or another have told our mother not the whole truth to keep from getting sucked into some long drawn out drama. I know I have with both my mom and mil. I am almost 45 years old and my mom pouts and won't talk to me and then my mil pouts and cries so you see why I might not tell the whole truth?!
Bottom line...OP I think you are in the wrong in this instance. I don't get why this trip wasn't planned to include the whole family. It does seem like you are going out of your way to accommodate your DS.
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Post by moveablefeast on Aug 4, 2015 18:29:08 GMT
Is it so wrong that the daughter doesn't want to miss the first day of classes to take care of her parents' dogs? Nope . Not at all. If she'd been honest and admitted that from the get-go I'd be on her side. If she had clear boundaries and simply said to mom "I can do that; however I'm not WILLING to do it," I'd be fine with it. You're not being consistent here. Which is it? You'd be fine with she's not willing to do it, or, to quote you... "i see where the OP is coming from... DD is part of a family. When your family needs help, you help - even if it's inconvenient"
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Post by momstime on Aug 4, 2015 18:41:40 GMT
My daughter has such terrible anxiety at the start of every semester. I could never even imagine asking her to miss the first day of class. Not for any reason. I even told her if I were to die in a fiery car crash (why is it always a fiery car crash? lol), she is to go to class. She always calms herself down after that first class. She starts grad school in a couple of weeks. By the way, Dh and I will be helping her move in. Do some of you really expect 22 yr old women to be able to lift their own couch up a flight of stairs?
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Post by penny on Aug 4, 2015 18:43:38 GMT
But she DID! She said she cannot miss the first day of class. Plain and simple. Mom is being the brat here. And quite frankly, YOU need to stop telling others that their kids are lying brats when they are adults with responsibilities of their own and not willing to bend to Mommy's wants. It's about the wording. Can't isn't an honest word choice. It's putting the responsibility on the school. DD isn't taking ownership; she's not simply owning her adult right to say no, I'm not willing to do that. Semantics? Really? DD could also drop out for a year just to look after the dogs for one day... So she "can" do that, the lying bitch just isn't "willing to"...? Get out of your own issue and look at the bigger picture... Nothing dishonest about "I can't"... It's understood that it means "I can't, as a responsible and mature person, in good conscience miss a key, important day in my expensive education that is preparing me for a career, in order to dog sit when a kennel you trust and the dogs are familiar with is available. I hope you understand, MOM." Poor woman - mom doesn't get how amazing it is that her DD is so engaged and committed to her education, and now some random has decided she's a liar... I thought you lied to get out of going to class - if she's lying to be able to go, good on her!
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conchita
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Posts: 3,141
Jul 1, 2014 11:25:58 GMT
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Post by conchita on Aug 4, 2015 18:47:00 GMT
This is the second thread I've read this week where the OP hasn't returned. I need to know what's going to happen with the OP's dogs!
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Post by Scrapper100 on Aug 4, 2015 18:48:52 GMT
Hmmm. I didn't read it that way re the boyfriend. Again - my biggest problem/issue is that regardless of how we interpret the fb piece the dd is still lying. If DD wants to be an adult she needs to act like one and just tell mom the truth. It isn't that she CAN'T call her profs and let the know she'll be away first day but she's still claiming the seat. Mom has already checked and that's allowed. It's that she doesn't WANT to. I hate it when people claim they can't do something when the truth is they simply don't want to. Professors and departments can make rules that exceed the general university posting. She may be in a very competitive program where seats are given away and you lose the class. General websites can't include rules for every Department You and mom have no way of knowing what the rules are in HER program and with her profs. Daughter does. I still don't see how you can conclude she is lying. And the dogs can still be boarded. Exactly if it is a major with a lot of competition missing will mean possibly losing your place no matter what. There wasn't a death in the family this is not a valid excuse for missing a class especially the first class of your senior year. No matter what the schools website says I don't think the daughter is lying.
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Post by FLA SummerBaby on Aug 4, 2015 19:08:24 GMT
Not that you asked, but for a reason such as kenneling the dogs-- I would not ask my college-age DD to miss her first day of the semester. I work at a major university and have for 24+ years. We do have drop/add adjustment period during the first few days of the semester. Typically students will not be dropped for missing a class. However, at our university, it is the professor's prerogative during the first few days of classes to drop students for non-attendance in order to make space for students on waiting list to get in the class.
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Post by gmcwife1 on Aug 4, 2015 19:09:13 GMT
But she DID! She said she cannot miss the first day of class. Plain and simple. Mom is being the brat here. And quite frankly, YOU need to stop telling others that their kids are lying brats when they are adults with responsibilities of their own and not willing to bend to Mommy's wants. It's about the wording. Can't isn't an honest word choice. It's putting the responsibility on the school. DD isn't taking ownership; she's not simply owning her adult right to say no, I'm not willing to do that. I'm sorry, but bologna. Can't is an honest word choice. It means I can't do something for whatever reason and I don't have to explain that reason. It doesn't matter if I can't because I want to stay home or I want to have the day to myself or I have something else planned that day. I can't because I have other plans whatever those are. I may have PTO on the books but I can't miss a specific day because I have a meeting or don't want to use that saved PTO for some random day. Same thing. People do not have to explain themselves every time. Can't is an honest answer. I can't because I want to do something else.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,375
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Aug 4, 2015 19:16:23 GMT
I'm back and I think I should clarify where I'm coming from here.
I actually am in full agreement that the dogs aren't DD's responsibility and Mom had no business asking, given Mom knew it was her first day of school. Heck, if I were her son, I'd be shutting down her leisurely vactioning back via parks, too.
I completely agree that Mom doesn't respect DD. I'm of the POV, based on my own familial experiences, that saying can't, vs just bluntly say NO, period, full stop, will not help the situation. I found in our family, when we stopped saying we 'couldn't' do something, when the truth was a simple, no, not willing to do that, we got much more respect. Can't just leads to more 'But why' and then the person (I really do love my mother, I'm just not blind to her flaws) continually trying to wear you down, and come up with ways to make it so you 'can.'
Better to just skip the drama and say, "Nope. Not doing that. End of discussion."
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Post by brina on Aug 4, 2015 19:21:30 GMT
But she DID! She said she cannot miss the first day of class. Plain and simple. Mom is being the brat here. And quite frankly, YOU need to stop telling others that their kids are lying brats when they are adults with responsibilities of their own and not willing to bend to Mommy's wants. It's about the wording. Can't isn't an honest word choice. It's putting the responsibility on the school. DD isn't taking ownership; she's not simply owning her adult right to say no, I'm not willing to do that. I don't see it as a lie, but rather as a statement of her needs. "I can't miss a class" does not have to mean it is university policy. It can mean, "I am taking four upper level classes that are a key component of my degree and I cannot miss a class or it will negatively affect my learning and my grades, and potentially my job prospects or my chance of getting into the graduate program I want to attend."
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,375
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Aug 4, 2015 19:31:08 GMT
Nope . Not at all. If she'd been honest and admitted that from the get-go I'd be on her side. If she had clear boundaries and simply said to mom "I can do that; however I'm not WILLING to do it," I'd be fine with it. You're not being consistent here. Which is it? You'd be fine with she's not willing to do it, or, to quote you... "i see where the OP is coming from... DD is part of a family. When your family needs help, you help - even if it's inconvenient" That's fair... I thought about it more and realized this wasn't the type of situation where it was urgent enough to warrant that, esp. as OP admitted that she could have done things differently. Instead she took her dd for granted and she's tried to just dump this on her. Not ok. Mom's smart enough to know when first day of classes lands.
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Anita
Drama Llama
Posts: 5,644
Location: Kansas City -ish
Jun 27, 2014 2:38:58 GMT
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Post by Anita on Aug 4, 2015 19:34:26 GMT
I actually see where you're coming from, cycworker. I think we should also take into account family dynamics. You know what wording you must use to satisfy your family. It may be that different wording works in hers. We don't know.
Now as for the original post...we're being punked, right?
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Post by papersilly on Aug 4, 2015 19:41:56 GMT
people and their priorities. classes at my college were so impacted that if you were not there the first day, you spot was given to whoever was waiting to add the class. and rightfully so.
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Post by Prenticekid on Aug 4, 2015 20:29:15 GMT
First day of classes absolutely beats out dogs in a kennel. Fly your son back. Have only one of you make the trip to get him. Get a dog sitter. There are a lot of alternatives to having an apparently motivated student miss first day of classes.
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mallie
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Jul 3, 2014 18:13:13 GMT
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Post by mallie on Aug 4, 2015 21:43:58 GMT
One difference between the rules when my dh and I were in college and our kids is the issue of attendance. None of our professors ever took attendance. Ever.
In contrast, ALL of my girls' professors have taken attendance in every class and attendance was mandatory. Some professors had a very strict policy that forbade any but X number of excused absences that had to be verifiable (the "bring me an obit" type). And missing the first day of class could have meant you got kicked out of that class. At the very least, it means you don't get the necessary first day info from the professor.
Why would any one with this experience want to risk the consequences to watch her parents' dogs while they are babysitting her adult brother on a cross country vacation? Talk about messed up priorities.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,375
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Aug 4, 2015 22:38:17 GMT
Now THAT I concede is fair. i guess for me, I wouldn't have entertained the why not questions (if it happened that way). I'd simply reaffirm the boundary I'd set - I'm not willing to miss the first day. Period. Full stop. Reaffirming boundaries is certainly the ideal we all strive for, but considering the number of women here in their 30s, 40s and 50s who can't simply reaffirm boundaries they have set with their parents, I think it is harsh to judge a 21 y.o. as a brat if or when she fails to do so. Yeah, I have to admit that was harsh. I remember being that 21 year old... It took a long time to develop the boundaries with my own mother and learn how/when to say, 'No. No, that is NOT going to work for me.' And repeat.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,375
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Aug 4, 2015 22:44:07 GMT
I agree that first day of class is more important than dog sitting. But I'm iffy about "no is a complete sentence " bit when it comes to family. Of course it all comes down to who is in your family, but if my adult daughter was that rude when I made a request I probably wouldn't be eager to do her many favors down the road. Also fair. I think like others I'm sensing a family dynamic where the parents - ok, the mother - can have, uh... strong personalities... I'm trying to think of a nice way of saying domineering. You have to remember, I'm the person whose mother barged into a party at a pub I was attending because she realized I'd forgotten the sticker for my car, which I didn't actually NEED until the next day. That level of firmness - which you're calling rude - is all that will actually get her attention so we can then talk about whatever it is like rational people. It tends to stop her in her tracks & have her realize she's being controlling. Then we can, as mentioned, have a real conversation like adults & try to compromise as appropriate.
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Post by RiverIsis on Aug 5, 2015 0:48:41 GMT
I would have died if my mom tried to help me move in or out after my first year of college. And Grad School?!?! I used to drive the 2500 miles between Columbus, OH and Los Angeles at least one round trip per year by myself. No one in grad school had their parents moving them. I have to disagree a bit with this. We're taking my dd to school next week, for her second year. It's only a couple of hours away--but we kind of have to, as she won't have a car--and we need both of our cars to get all of her things there. She will need all the help she can get getting the futon, TV, fridge, etc. up the stairs of the high-rise dorm, while one of us waits in the ridiculous lines for one of the two elevators. Then she'll need assistance to loft her bed, as we found last year that with these beds it took 2 people to do it most effectively, and a lot of strength (dh, not me). We'll be helping her to move out, too. With that said, we've been joking amongst ourselves that the whole process will have quite a different feel to it this year--and that is a good thing for all of us. I am not helping/directing packing at all (she hasn't started, to my knowledge), and we envision that once we get everything up the stairs and any tasks done that require some specific assistance (lofting, maybe the electronic set-up), then we are out of there. I went Fr and Soph years. Basically Soph year I was needed for similar reasons and he was an Orientation Assistant so one of the 1st back on campus. 1st year I organized him. 2nd year I lofted the bed and helped move the furniture in the dorm. 3rd was unfurnished Apt and brother went - new bed was delivered to Apt and still there for this year. Year 4 of a 5 year program I can see the light!!!!
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Post by RiverIsis on Aug 5, 2015 1:00:53 GMT
Did not read all of the posts, didn't expect all of the replies. I knew it was "bad" since there were so many replies so early! I'm just mad because she is being bratty. She will miss class to be with her boyfriend but not to help us out while we are scrambling with our other college student to get him back here 3000 miles away for class. He was on significant time contraints on his internship and could not leave the other coast earlier. It's not to babysit our dogs, she cried when she kissed them goodbye six months ago so she misses them! I just wish she had let me know earlier so I can put another thing on my "to do" list before I leave. Yes, DH and I are both going, flying to the coast and driving back with DS, hitting a couple National Parks with him before he goes off on his own completely. He will be in his last semester on his Masters degree. I just checked the site and it said to let the prof know ahead of time if you are going to miss the first day. Given the additional info I definitely agree with you. She's being a brat. some of your schools are really strict, compared to mine. Where I went, at least in my psychology and sociology classes, you were an adult and if you wanted to basically treat your classes like a directed studies and only show upon the day stuff was due and test days, nobody gave a rat's patootie. No participation marks and nothing in the lectures you couldn't just read on your own. Everything you needed to ace the tests was in the readings. My cousin's wife had to go to class the morning of her MIL's funeral or she would have been dropped from class. Things have changed a lot in the last few years and most schools expect attendance no matter what.
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Post by berty on Aug 5, 2015 2:43:57 GMT
Is it so wrong that the daughter doesn't want to miss the first day of classes to take care of her parents' dogs? Nope . Not at all. If she'd been honest and admitted that from the get-go I'd be on her side. If she had clear boundaries and simply said to mom "I can do that; however I'm not WILLING to do it," I'd be fine with it. I think if I was in a family where the parents are more concerned with the dogs than their own daughter, I'd make up excuses and not be 100 percent forthright also just to avoid the backlash that would most likely follow.
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Post by darkchami on Aug 5, 2015 3:34:16 GMT
I'm back and I think I should clarify where I'm coming from here. I actually am in full agreement that the dogs aren't DD's responsibility and Mom had no business asking, given Mom knew it was her first day of school. Heck, if I were her son, I'd be shutting down her leisurely vactioning back via parks, too. I completely agree that Mom doesn't respect DD. I'm of the POV, based on my own familial experiences, that saying can't, vs just bluntly say NO, period, full stop, will not help the situation. I found in our family, when we stopped saying we 'couldn't' do something, when the truth was a simple, no, not willing to do that, we got much more respect. Can't just leads to more 'But why' and then the person (I really do love my mother, I'm just not blind to her flaws) continually trying to wear you down, and come up with ways to make it so you 'can.' Better to just skip the drama and say, "Nope. Not doing that. End of discussion." I think you have to be careful when you call someone's word choices dishonest. I can see how your experience filters how you see things. However, that is not how everyone views the use of the word "can't." I told my mom that I can't go with her tomorrow. I have an appointment with a specialist tomorrow. Is that dishonest? Technically I could cancel the appointment and reschedule. There could be consequences for doing so, such as paying a cancellation fee and waiting a month for another date. In my mind, I just can't miss this appointment. It would never occur to me to phrase it differently. My mom would have been much more upset with me had I simply said no. She would feel disrespected and hurt. My response to her fit within our family's communication parameters. I absolutely see that language needs to be used differently with your mom. I just think you have to be a bit cautious when applying that same rule to others.
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Post by mlynn on Aug 5, 2015 6:57:20 GMT
I suspect it is more of an issue of always coming in last to her brother. (Note Moms screen name.) She is supposed to miss the first day of classes so they can all have a road trip. Instead of 2 parents flying out to son, fly son home. If he has things he needs to bring home with him, ship them. Then everyone can be at school the first day, the dogs don't have to go to the kennel, and they save money... and perhaps all four of them get a bit of family time before school starts.
As for missing school to be with boyfriend, missing a class/day is not the same as missing the first day.
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cycworker
Pearl Clutcher
Posts: 4,375
Jun 26, 2014 0:42:38 GMT
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Post by cycworker on Aug 5, 2015 8:17:34 GMT
I suspect it is more of an issue of always coming in last to her brother. (Note Moms screen name.) She is supposed to miss the first day of classes so they can all have a road trip. Instead of 2 parents flying out to son, fly son home. If he has things he needs to bring home with him, ship them. Then everyone can be at school the first day, the dogs don't have to go to the kennel, and they save money... and perhaps all four of them get a bit of family time before school starts. As for missing school to be with boyfriend, missing a class/day is not the same as missing the first day. I got the impression part of the reason he can't fly back is that he'd be leaving a vehicle behind. OP said they were flying out & then driving home; I took that to mean they gave him one of their cars to use while he was away on his internship.
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Post by mlynn on Aug 5, 2015 8:34:56 GMT
I got the impression part of the reason he can't fly back is that he'd be leaving a vehicle behind. OP said they were flying out & then driving home; I took that to mean they gave him one of their cars to use while he was away on his internship. If the dogs are that important, I bet he (at about 23 years of age) could drive himself home. Or even one parent could make the trip. Why does she think the daughter should sacrifice her plans/first day of school/commitment/responsibility for the dogs if SHE is not willing to make the sacrifice for the dogs.
I revise my prior statement. Perhaps it is a matter of being tired of being put last - in favor of the son AND the dogs.
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