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Post by lucyg on Jul 23, 2016 21:46:01 GMT
I wasn't a controlling or iron-fisted mom. If anything, I catered to them way too much in the years after my husband died. I readily admit, at that age my DD would have walked all over me with something like this incident. But I still believe the daughter here is being selfish and a bit spoiled, and she ought to pick up a freakin' carton of cream if asked. It's not what she believes in but she should make an effort to be helpful to her mom, anyway. BTW, my DD who is now in her early 30s and actually quite a lovely, mostly unspoiled person is visiting this weekend. I told her this story and asked her what she thought. (She was vegetarian for years, dabbled in vegan living, but eventually made her way back to eating meat. Many of her friends are vegetarian or vegan. She is really a flower child and lives in one of the hippiest towns in California.) Her response? "Daughter sounds like an asshole vegan. They aren't all like that, but too many are." Sorry.
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pridemom
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Jul 12, 2014 21:58:10 GMT
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Post by pridemom on Jul 23, 2016 22:21:51 GMT
OP - you've probably had enough of people telling you that your daughter is a spoiled brat or worse. I hope that while she was at the store that she reconsidered and brought home some cream. If she didn't, then I hope at some point down the road, she realizes that her commitment to veganism should be second to kindness to others. She's young, it will come. Mostly I hope that you have a good dinner with your son before he moves. I suspect that emotions are high on everyone's part. (I'd still bring one of those whole lambs from Costco home and put it on my counter to thaw for the next 2 days just because I'm mean like that) I agree with BF. Although I wouldn't thaw lamb on my counter for two days. I do hope she realized that when you are part of a family, you help them out because it's what is right. And that she would want to contribute to doing something nice for her brother. If not, I think it's time for a household meeting to discuss consideration of others.
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Post by myshelly on Jul 23, 2016 22:36:39 GMT
Are you kidding me? That is just a shitty thing to say. We all have our lines as parents. You force your family to undress outside because you are such a germaphobe, but I don't think anyone called you a shitty parent over that. WHAT?? myshelly does that??? Not exactly. There was a thread, I think it was about how clean do you keep your house. I said there were some situations where it made more since to leave your dirty clothes outside, like if you'd been doing yard work or your kids had been playing in mud. I said sometimes we leave dirty clothes on our back porch. My kids are all little and think it's hilarious when they get to do their naked dance in the backyard, But of course, for reasons I can't understand, in Pealand that got twisted to me forcing unwilling people to strip naked. I don't get it, but whatever.
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Post by mlynn on Jul 23, 2016 22:41:59 GMT
It sounds like a number of peas who are supporting the vegan daughter's refusal to purchase a container of whipping cream to help out her Mom are completely forgetting the fact that Mom has bent over backwards to accommodate her daughter's vegan lifestyle. In my house, respect and cooperation trump the "lifestyle" that dictates that she cannot possibly purchase a small cardboard container without completely contaminating and compromising that lifestyle. She is very lucky to have a Mom who is willing to compromise HER own lifestyle for vegan daughter. No one is asking/forcing daughter to eat animal products. I'm not forgetting that. I just don't think it's as big of a deal as most peas seem to. I decided to become vegetarian when I was 5. My mother accomadated it. I just see it as what a mom *should* do, not something you should get a special prize for. There is a HUGE difference between preparing meals for a 5 year old and expecting an 18 year old, now 20 year old to prepare their own food. Many peas have posted on threads that they should be having their teen children help prepare meals...even having them meal plan and grocery shop. That this is necessary preparation for life. Obviously this is beyond a 5 year old.
Also, if you want to talk about parental obligations...Parents are obligated to feed, house and clothe their children. They are not obligated to prepare additional foods because the child does not want to eat the ones prepared for everyone. I had a boyfriend whose mother would prepare 3 different meals at meal time because both sons and her husband wanted/liked different things. I thought it was ridiculous, and I would never have catered to that situation. Peas often post that a kid can make a PB sandwich if they refuse to eat prepared food.
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Post by christine58 on Jul 23, 2016 22:42:30 GMT
There was a thread, I think it was about how clean do you keep your house. I said there were some situations where it made more since to leave your dirty clothes outside, like if you'd been doing yard work or your kids had been playing in mud. I said sometimes we leave dirty clothes on our back porch. Well that does make sense actually! Funny how shit gets twisted in here.
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twinsmomfla99
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Post by twinsmomfla99 on Jul 23, 2016 23:14:21 GMT
Not exactly. There was a thread, I think it was about how clean do you keep your house. I said there were some situations where it made more since to leave your dirty clothes outside, like if you'd been doing yard work or your kids had been playing in mud. I said sometimes we leave dirty clothes on our back porch. My kids are all little and think it's hilarious when they get to do their naked dance in the backyard, But of course, for reasons I can't understand, in Pealand that got twisted to me forcing unwilling people to strip naked. I don't get it, but whatever. Haha! I missed that thread. I did the same thing when mine were little, and I may have, on occasion, used a garden hose to "prewash" before they were allowed in the house for a bath LOL.
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MsKnit
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Jun 26, 2014 19:06:42 GMT
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Post by MsKnit on Jul 23, 2016 23:53:37 GMT
Not exactly. There was a thread, I think it was about how clean do you keep your house. I said there were some situations where it made more since to leave your dirty clothes outside, like if you'd been doing yard work or your kids had been playing in mud. I said sometimes we leave dirty clothes on our back porch. My kids are all little and think it's hilarious when they get to do their naked dance in the backyard, But of course, for reasons I can't understand, in Pealand that got twisted to me forcing unwilling people to strip naked. I don't get it, but whatever. Haha! I missed that thread. I did the same thing when mine were little, and I may have, on occasion, used a garden hose to "prewash" before they were allowed in the house for a bath LOL. LOL! BTDT. Have the pictures to prove it. ETA: Of my son when he was much younger. LOL! Dh has on occasion undressed in the stairwell to the basement to avoid dragging in unnecessary mud and yuck, too. OP, I would have been terribly hurt, too. IMO, if your choices/beliefs cause you to be an asshole to others, you (general) need to rethink your choices. How nice would it have been had the daughter asked if she would have explained why she couldn't buy the cream and could she buy a vegan version of cream instead? Simple courtesy and respect for a mother who has supported her dietary choice tremendously.
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tiffanytwisted
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Jun 26, 2014 15:57:39 GMT
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Post by tiffanytwisted on Jul 23, 2016 23:56:51 GMT
Whew! Finally got to the end! Just so I won't be , let me just say that I don't think you were being unreasonable. At that's all I'm going to say on that subject. However, I will say that I fall into the 'my house, my rules' category. While I will always try to be reasonable and take their thoughts & opinions into consideration, in the end my husband & I call the shots. Oh, and myshelly, my 17 yo got home from a week at Boy Scout camp today. He was made to strip on the back porch, lol. Not so much the dirt, mind you, but oh lordy, the stench!! Can't be havin' those clothes hanging out in the hamper!
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moodyblue
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Jun 26, 2014 21:07:23 GMT
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Post by moodyblue on Jul 24, 2016 0:32:58 GMT
Not exactly. There was a thread, I think it was about how clean do you keep your house. I said there were some situations where it made more since to leave your dirty clothes outside, like if you'd been doing yard work or your kids had been playing in mud. I said sometimes we leave dirty clothes on our back porch. My kids are all little and think it's hilarious when they get to do their naked dance in the backyard, But of course, for reasons I can't understand, in Pealand that got twisted to me forcing unwilling people to strip naked. I don't get it, but whatever. I think you also said that your family strips down outside if they have been someplace where there might be more germs, like at a hospital. I think that's where the germaphobe tag is coming from, not so much because of the kids being physically dirty from playing in the mud.
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Post by momstime on Jul 24, 2016 1:37:05 GMT
In my house EVERYONE eats what I want to eat. I'm the one shopping, cleaning, preparing, cooking, basting, roasting, grilling, boiling, serving, rinsing and repeating for the last 28 years. As the one who does all the work, I'm going to be the one who does the picking. If you decide that one day you no longer eat meat, good luck to you. Tell me you are suddenly vegan, and I can tell you right now that you are going to go hungry, or become one heck of a shopper and cook, because this mom does not play short order cook. Anyone is more than welcome to step up and prepare a meal for me, in which case I will be pleased as punch to indulge in whatever floats your boat. But seeing that my children were not about that life (as they say), the only words they utter while eating is THANK YOU!!! If my 23 year old daughter told me she would not purchase something for me that I really needed (or even want wanted), I would....well, I don't know what I'd do because my daughter is the most generous hearted soul on the planet. I take no credit. She was born that way. OP, I'm sorry. I have had some way worse issues with my kids, least you think I'm bragging.
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PaperAngel
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Jun 27, 2014 23:04:06 GMT
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Post by PaperAngel on Jul 24, 2016 2:47:37 GMT
"You never know unless you ask." IMHO you did nothing wrong by asking your daughter to add another item to her shopping list. Given your children are leaving the nest, your emotional response to this scenario is understandable.
Have you considered/is it possible your daughter's refusal to purchase the requested grocery item had more to do with her sibling (than mother-daughter) dynamic? Perhaps a strained relationship with her brother due to a recent disagreement; she is hesitant about him leaving; his move is a reminder that your family is changing; etc. actually prompted or contributed to her response. Another possibility is that she never went to the grocery store for whatever reason she didn't want to admit/explain.
Adulthood is a journey filled with successes & mistakes. I suggest making this a learning experience - explain your perspective & discussi your future expectations with your daughter in hopes she will become a better & more conscientious communicator. Hope you & your family enjoy the next few weeks together!
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Post by 950nancy on Jul 24, 2016 6:45:36 GMT
Not exactly. There was a thread, I think it was about how clean do you keep your house. I said there were some situations where it made more since to leave your dirty clothes outside, like if you'd been doing yard work or your kids had been playing in mud. I said sometimes we leave dirty clothes on our back porch. My kids are all little and think it's hilarious when they get to do their naked dance in the backyard, But of course, for reasons I can't understand, in Pealand that got twisted to me forcing unwilling people to strip naked. I don't get it, but whatever. Why do you think it is unlikely that your kids will move far away? They are little. Who knows who they might meet and fall in love with and move away with. My husband was very attached to his mom (single mom, widowed) and he moved 600 miles away within 1 month of graduating college. I hope my boys stay close, but who know what the future holds.
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lesley
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Jul 6, 2014 21:50:44 GMT
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Post by lesley on Jul 24, 2016 13:58:01 GMT
Not exactly. There was a thread, I think it was about how clean do you keep your house. I said there were some situations where it made more since to leave your dirty clothes outside, like if you'd been doing yard work or your kids had been playing in mud. I said sometimes we leave dirty clothes on our back porch. My kids are all little and think it's hilarious when they get to do their naked dance in the backyard, But of course, for reasons I can't understand, in Pealand that got twisted to me forcing unwilling people to strip naked. I don't get it, but whatever. I think you also said that your family strips down outside if they have been someplace where there might be more germs, like at a hospital. I think that's where the germaphobe tag is coming from, not so much because of the kids being physically dirty from playing in the mud. That's exactly what I remember too myshelly. The kids and I had a discussion about how weird we thought that was, and DS wondered how you would act if one of your kids or your DH had actually been an in-patient - would you make them strip outside and shower as soon as they come home, even if they were weak and unwell?
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Post by hop2 on Jul 24, 2016 14:04:29 GMT
Get her some cloth grocery bags as the plastic grocery bags use animal products during manufacture.
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Post by gar on Jul 24, 2016 14:06:12 GMT
I think you also said that your family strips down outside if they have been someplace where there might be more germs, like at a hospital. I think that's where the germaphobe tag is coming from, not so much because of the kids being physically dirty from playing in the mud. That's exactly what I remember too myshelly . The kids and I had a discussion about how weird we thought that was, and DS wondered how you would act if one of your kids or your DH had actually been an in-patient - would you make them strip outside and shower as soon as they come home, even if they were weak and unwell? And I wondered how that would go down when the kids are teenagers and might not want to strip off outside!
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paget
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Jun 25, 2014 21:16:39 GMT
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Post by paget on Jul 24, 2016 14:21:15 GMT
Not exactly. There was a thread, I think it was about how clean do you keep your house. I said there were some situations where it made more since to leave your dirty clothes outside, like if you'd been doing yard work or your kids had been playing in mud. I said sometimes we leave dirty clothes on our back porch. My kids are all little and think it's hilarious when they get to do their naked dance in the backyard, But of course, for reasons I can't understand, in Pealand that got twisted to me forcing unwilling people to strip naked. I don't get it, but whatever. I think you also said that your family strips down outside if they have been someplace where there might be more germs, like at a hospital. I think that's where the germaphobe tag is coming from, not so much because of the kids being physically dirty from playing in the mud. I am vaguely remembering as being bed bug possibility related. It was definately more than she is describing about some outside dirt. It was enough "different" that the peas took note even if we can't remember exactly why!
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finaledition
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Jun 26, 2014 0:30:34 GMT
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Post by finaledition on Jul 24, 2016 14:54:43 GMT
My daughter has been vegan about one year. I would be irate if she did this. I know my food bill has increased to accommodate her diet and I take special care shopping for items for her. I'd be livid if she pulled that.
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Post by Katie on Jul 24, 2016 14:58:41 GMT
Please be sure to come back and update us if you had a talk with her about how her actions upset you.
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Post by SweetieBugs on Jul 24, 2016 15:28:56 GMT
DD and I sat down at talked and I really couldn't make any headway other than to determine that we just have to agree that we are not going to agree on this. I don't see it as her breaking her values to buy me a simple non-vegan item as a carton of whipping cream. She does. She couldn't understand why I got so upset about it and I think it was a bottled up response to the fact that (1) I am on borrowed time with both kids and wanted to start the dessert for my son who is leaving in a few days, (2) upset at her as she just flippantly told me "I'm not getting that" and (3) stressed with work as my responsibilities are nearly triple right now and it's such a bad time since I'm trying to spend a lot of family time this past week.
Somewhere along the line, her age in this thread got misstated by a few peas. She is 19 going on 20. She is certainly old enough to be helpful and cooperate and to understand other people's feelings. With respect to her vegan beliefs however, she will not bend. Some time around her teen years, it became apparent that she is not very empathetic to other people's feelings. While she is very caring about the environment, racism, LBGT rights, class discrimination, and many, many other social aspects (far more than you would think for a person her age), she just seems to have a hard time relating to other people's feelings. Her ideas are so important to her that she can't "understand" other people's viewpoints.
I find this frustrating but at least this weekend gave me more of an understanding of the extent of her ideals I hope her experience at university will help her grow some tolerance.
ETA: I would call my DD's behavior bratty but I would never describe this as "asshole" behavior. That word is a bit extreme for this situation I think.
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LeaP
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Jun 26, 2014 23:17:22 GMT
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Post by LeaP on Jul 24, 2016 16:17:21 GMT
Somewhere along the line, her age in this thread got misstated by a few peas. She is 19 going on 20. She is certainly old enough to be helpful and cooperate and to understand other people's feelings. With respect to her vegan beliefs however, she will not bend. Some time around her teen years, it became apparent that she is not very empathetic to other people's feelings. While she is very caring about the environment, racism, LBGT rights, class discrimination, and many, many other social aspects (far more than you would think for a person her age), she just seems to have a hard time relating to other people's feelings. Her ideas are so important to her that she can't "understand" other people's viewpoints.
You know, I think this is a phase. I vaguely remember being insufferable at various points in my teens and now chalk it up as natures way to ease separation. My teen has wonderful days between the days she lectures me on everything. Last night, it was my attitude on caring for the cat, a pampered and preened beast. Hang in there! SaveSave
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Post by maryland on Jul 24, 2016 17:20:51 GMT
Whew! Finally got to the end! Just so I won't be , let me just say that I don't think you were being unreasonable. At that's all I'm going to say on that subject. However, I will say that I fall into the 'my house, my rules' category. While I will always try to be reasonable and take their thoughts & opinions into consideration, in the end my husband & I call the shots. Oh, and myshelly , my 17 yo got home from a week at Boy Scout camp today. He was made to strip on the back porch, lol. Not so much the dirt, mind you, but oh lordy, the stench!! Can't be havin' those clothes hanging out in the hamper! Our girls would be doing the same thing when they get extremely dirty! Then they would hose down their clothes before we would wash them in the washing machine!
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Post by gar on Jul 24, 2016 17:39:51 GMT
I know this thread's gone off at a bit of a tangent but this just came across my FB feed and seemed particularly fitting
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Post by mirabelleswalker on Jul 24, 2016 18:58:09 GMT
While she is very caring about the environment, racism, LBGT rights, class discrimination, and many, many other social aspects (far more than you would think for a person her age), she just seems to have a hard time relating to other people's feelings. Her ideas are so important to her that she can't "understand" other people's viewpoints. It sounds like she has a hard time relating to YOUR feelings. Charity and kindness begin at home. I'm sorry she treated you with such disrespect.
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Post by lucyg on Jul 24, 2016 19:23:05 GMT
ETA: I would call my DD's behavior bratty but I would never describe this as "asshole" behavior. That word is a bit extreme for this situation I think.
I'm sorry my word choice (actually my DD's word choice) bothered you. It wasn't really meant to be directed right at your daughter, but at a whole class of holier-than-thou types. Whether the word is bratty, assholian, selfish, or whatever ... it isn't nice to always put your own desires ahead of everyone else's, especially your own mother who has been going to so much trouble to meet your needs most of the time.
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Anita
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Jun 27, 2014 2:38:58 GMT
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Post by Anita on Jul 24, 2016 19:29:56 GMT
I honestly think your DD is in for a rude awakening in the "real world" with her inability to understand things from other viewpoints. Good luck with that.
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Post by hop2 on Jul 24, 2016 23:36:36 GMT
ETA: I would call my DD's behavior bratty but I would never describe this as "asshole" behavior. That word is a bit extreme for this situation I think.
I'm sorry my word choice (actually my DD's word choice) bothered you. It wasn't really meant to be directed right at your daughter, but at a whole class of holier-than-thou types. Whether the word is bratty, assholian, selfish, or whatever ... it isn't nice to always put your own desires ahead of everyone else's, especially your own mother who has been going to so much trouble to meet your needs most of the time. Ya well the way things roll lately I can't blame her for wanting to make that distinction! Not sure she's really upset with you per se.
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Post by lurkingsince2001 on Jul 24, 2016 23:45:11 GMT
To the OP: you haven't chimed in here for awhile. I hope all is well with you and your daughter. I hope you were both able to sort things out calmly and understand each other's point of views. Now, I just finished reading a 9 pager on here. I remember reading the first page a while ago, then not following up on it. I was curious as to why it was going on 9 pages. It was an eye-opener. A bit creepy, a whole lot scary. Some of us sided with you, and felt your daughter was wrong. Some of us felt she was right. Doesn't matter. If what happened to Carblover happens to you, you and your daughter's relationship could be severely harmed. Not sure if that can be rectified, by removing your post, or something. I'm not sure if that can be even done? Your problem is just a small-ish one at the moment. I just don't want to see it blown up as I have seen from that other thread. We all need to realize that while we are mostly anonymous here, things we put on the internet...anywhere...can follow us. Just a little PSA. Out of curiousity, do you really believe this kid has never talked/ranted to one of her friends or boyfriend/girlfriend about her parents? I'll bet she has. And I'm also willing to bet that every mom on earth has needed to vent to a friend or family member about their kid at least once (if not a lot more often). That's really all this poster or Carblover did, vent. If it's going to keep a person from using the board, that's a real problem. And for each one of us to decide on our own. It's a nice PSA, especially if she was unaware of the kerfluffle, but are we going to post it now on every advice, PVM, venting thread? Frankly, it's probably still safer here than a phone call that might've been overheard, or talking to someone in real life who might mention it to DD. But I don't believe OP said anything she couldn't have said to her kid's face and was, frankly, nicer about it than many of us would've been. Reasonable caution, yes. Leaving out identifiers, alright. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. Then the B that betrayed us wins.
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Post by elaine on Jul 24, 2016 23:58:30 GMT
Not exactly. There was a thread, I think it was about how clean do you keep your house. I said there were some situations where it made more since to leave your dirty clothes outside, like if you'd been doing yard work or your kids had been playing in mud. I said sometimes we leave dirty clothes on our back porch. My kids are all little and think it's hilarious when they get to do their naked dance in the backyard, But of course, for reasons I can't understand, in Pealand that got twisted to me forcing unwilling people to strip naked. I don't get it, but whatever. Why do you think it is unlikely that your kids will move far away? They are little. Who knows who they might meet and fall in love with and move away with. My husband was very attached to his mom (single mom, widowed) and he moved 600 miles away within 1 month of graduating college. I hope my boys stay close, but who know what the future holds. If I remember correctly, the whole extended family lives within a couple of blocks. Multiple houses close to each other with more than one generation involved. The expectation, apparently, is that kids are expected to get a house in the neighborhood when they marry and that they will receive financial help to do so. If they move away, according to myshelly in an earlier thread, they will receive no further financial help. Cut-off. And she will be beyond hurt, so she said, if they seriously consider moving away. It was a very unique situation which is why I remember it. I love my mother dearly, but I love to travel and love living in different parts of the country. My moving away had absolutely nothing to do with her "rules" and everything to do with my personality, interests and values.
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Post by smalltowngirlie on Jul 25, 2016 0:19:10 GMT
"DD,since you are choosing to not pick something up for me while you are at the store, that now requires me to make a trip there. That also means I do not have time to make 2 meals for tonight and I choose to make Surf and Turf. Just wanted to let you know."
I still think I would not be quite so accomodating to DD. Because of her choice your workload for making a meal is at least doubled. It seems she can be empathic to a lot of people she does not even know, but not so much for her own family. Mom, take a break and let DD shop and cook for herself for a bit.
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Post by myshelly on Jul 25, 2016 2:31:04 GMT
Why do you think it is unlikely that your kids will move far away? They are little. Who knows who they might meet and fall in love with and move away with. My husband was very attached to his mom (single mom, widowed) and he moved 600 miles away within 1 month of graduating college. I hope my boys stay close, but who know what the future holds. If I remember correctly, the whole extended family lives within a couple of blocks. Multiple houses close to each other with more than one generation involved. The expectation, apparently, is that kids are expected to get a house in the neighborhood when they marry and that they will receive financial help to do so. If they move away, according to myshelly in an earlier thread, they will receive no further financial help. Cut-off. And she will be beyond hurt, so she said, if they seriously consider moving away. It was a very unique situation which is why I remember it. I love my mother dearly, but I love to travel and love living in different parts of the country. My moving away had absolutely nothing to do with her "rules" and everything to do with my personality, interests and values. I NEVER said I would "cut them off". My entire family does live here. My husband's entire family does, too. I don't understand moving away. We do not all live within a couple of blocks. We live in different neighborhoods and in different cities. But we are all within about ten minutes of each other. But here I know A LOT of families like mine. I really don't think it's as atypical as the peas make it out to be. Research shows the average American lives 18 miles from mom: www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/12/24/upshot/24up-family.html?_r=0
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