Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 28, 2021 16:32:45 GMT
If I trigger you, you have work to do. Period. Sit with those feelings before you engage in a personal attack or want to be snarky. I do this work all the time. How wonderful it must feel to be seen and heard You can be pretty snarky too, Olan. Your way or the highway. While I agree with you in quite a few things you are imperfect just like the rest of us. Your disdain of others is very pronounced and it doesn’t do your cause any good. What is my cause? Do you see it as your cause too? You’ve described me as snarky and said it’s my way or the highway. Describe my way. Describe the highway. Do you think my disdain has anything to do with the way peas have engaged with me in the past? Is there such a thing as warranted disdain? Why do you think I provide quotes or link threads while the peas who claim we have “history” do not? In the past I’ve posed a lot of unanswered questions and had links I’ve shared ignored so it’s not like I have this expectation that you’ll engage in any meaningful way but quiet introspectiveness ain’t never hurt nobody.
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Post by Olan on Jan 28, 2021 16:20:10 GMT
Fresh Air “In my research, I found evidence of black and brown children facing down racial epithets from their hosts, encountering both physical and sexual abuse, experiencing the repeated trauma of displacement, feeling like enslaved Africans on display as they, tagged and trotted out, waited to be paired with their hosts. One Fresh Air child had to listen to his host exclaim at the pick-up point, “You didn’t tell us this kid was gonna be no nigger.” Looking back on her experience as a child, a former Fresh Air child exclaimed, “It was two weeks of being afraid, two weeks of people staring at us, poking at us, asking us ludicrous questions.” Still another could not get her host mother to touch her hair. I also found evidence of an African-American critic calling for “stale air” programs in which white suburban kids could be bused to the inner city. I read of a columnist who lambasted Fresh Air programs for giving black and brown children a week’s worth of access to suburban neighborhoods “which lock them out the other 51 weeks of the year.” Of course, the children fought back, challenged their hosts’ racist stereotypes, and maintained an active rumor network through which they informed each other of the best ways to survive while on a Fresh Air trip. But their actions could go only so far in the midst of the adults’ positions of authority, financial resources, and institutional power. Rather than a narrative of sweet, innocent contact between brown and black children and their white hosts, a complex pattern of one-way, tightly controlled, age-capped, paternalistic hosting ventures emerged. This was the story that the Fresh Air Fund — I think — tried to hide.” timeline.com/amp/p/3eaa365a741b2017 theconversation.com/amp/the-fresh-air-funds-complicated-racial-record-78733Not only did Chicagoan Janice Batts have to deal with feeling like she was at a “slave auction” when the white Iowan hosts came to pick up the tag-wearing African-American children in the 1960s and 1970s;, her host siblings would ask questions like “Why is your nose so wide? Do you sunburn? Why is your hair curly?” She experienced severe trauma as well; a host father sexually abused her over the course of two consecutive summers. After a series of sexual abuse lawsuits in the early 1980s, the Fresh Air Fund finally began to vet hosts to screen out potential abusers. Another concern to many of the people who participated in the program as children in my study – a concern that Fresh Air alums who took part in the program more recently have shared with me – was the assumption that, because they were from the city and nonwhite, they were not “equal” to their rural host families. For example, Cindy Vanderkodde, a Fresh Air guest from New York hosted by a Michigan family in the 1960s, remembers thinking at the time, “Oh wow, this is family, they love me.” But when she moved into the hosting community a dozen years later as a college-educated social worker, things changed. “Once I became an equal … there was just no interest there,” she told me.*
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 28, 2021 16:13:12 GMT
An ally doesn’t think Black people need to “win” over anyone so they can be recognized as whole human beings and not “cardboard cutouts”. I can't even imagine what a slap in the face reading that must have felt like. I'm sorry you were dragged in to this thread. Thank you. It was. But it was also helpful to see that many of you can see the Fresh Air program and how she describes transformation for what it really is. That’s progress to me.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 28, 2021 15:48:36 GMT
I don't know all the history referenced in this thread, but will just say I hear you Olan. Thank you. Most of the history peano references is contrived. I’m sure it’s why she started a separate thread instead of addressing the one she was called out in. This isn’t a history that spans over 20 pages threads or several years. Most of it is quoted+linked by me Olan or in the first 20-30 results of peano post history. It includes her Karen savior comment and the one she made about Black people carrying democracy on their backs. It should be some kind of rule that if anyone wants to talk about the past they need to link or quote it. It will prevent the tendency some peas have of bending the truth to fit their bandwagon.
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Post by Olan on Jan 28, 2021 15:39:13 GMT
The need to be seen as right or good ruins a lot of potentially good allyship work. I hear you and I think that's a very important point. I'm reading and listening...I think what I'm hearing from Olan is that being an ally needs to be on the terms of the person needing the ally not the person being the ally. And what I think I'm hearing from @peano is that she's trying to grow and learn and to be an ally but she doesn't want to lose herself in that process and she's not fully comfortable with being told what that process should look/sound like or that she's not doing it right. I'm a white woman - I'm uncomfortable with much of what Olan has to say. It's good that I'm uncomfortable, I should be. White Americans have been comfortable too long. And I hope that as we become less comfortable with the status quo and with our history, things will improve. I do know that hoping isn't enough, but I don't know exactly what I can do that might be. I've learned that I need to ask other allies not Black women because they have enough on their hands and don't need to be educating me. I think it’s important to note peano hasn’t been asked to “lose herself” in the process of becoming anti-racist. I certainly haven’t made that request of her. If you aren’t comfortable being told how to be a good ally then it might be wise to sit out this movement. Keep in mind I haven’t made any outlandish allyship requests of the peas and if I have no one saw it as a challenge. I think what we are really hearing peano say is, don’t make me examine my role in upholding racism or make me feel bad about what I’m apart of. And don’t hold me to the fire when I say white women had no agency. Life didn’t get in the way of her receiving that lesson. Ego did. Does anyone think that a good ally would speak to a Black person the way peano has spoke to me? An ally would never dismiss racial trauma and avoiding violent videos to preserve ones mental health as WTF rhetoric. An ally knows the history of chattel slavery and in instances they are ignorant they don’t go around smugly correcting Black people. An ally doesn’t think Black people need to “win” over anyone so they can be recognized as whole human beings and not “cardboard cutouts”. The way she wanes on and handled herself her is indicative of who she is as an ally. And as a woman.
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Post by Olan on Jan 28, 2021 3:05:59 GMT
On January 27, 1967, Jefferson County sheriff deputies went to the home of Robert Lacey, a Black father of six, to enforce a law requiring him to take the family dog to the veterinarian. The police engaged in a confrontation with Mr. Lacey and shot him to death. The Laceys' dog had allegedly bit a neighborhood child recently and the health department had instructed the family to take the dog in for a rabies test–however, the family did not own a car and had no means of transporting the animal. When deputies knocked at the door, Mr. Lacey answered after getting out of the shower, and the officers ordered him to get dressed and come with them. Mr. Lacey asked why, and asked the officers to just take the dog, but the officers refused. As Mr. Lacey complied with the order to get dressed, a gun he kept in his drawer fell to the floor, and the officers quickly pinned him to the wall and began to handcuff him. Mr. Lacey offered to come to the police car of his own free will, to which one of the officers reportedly replied, “Boy, you gonna leave here with handcuffs on, dead or alive.” Mr. Lacey was a large man; as the deputies attempted to wrestle him down, one of them fell to the ground, and the other then shot Mr. Lacey in the leg. The deputies later claimed Mr. Lacey lunged at them before the second shot, but Mr. Lacey’s family insisted Mr. Lacey fell to the ground before the deputy shot him again, “between the eyes.” Neighbors who ran to the house after the shooting were instructed by police to move the body before the coroner arrived. Mr. Lacey was the second Black man killed by Jefferson County law enforcement within nine days, and would be one of ten total law enforcement killings of Black men in the Birmingham, Alabama, area within a 14 month period spanning from 1966 to 1967. calendar.eji.org/racial-injustice/jan/27?fbclid=IwAR1byQRvdPK_7kWVOmZLZY-Bxh4RlmYQ3fZCsU--1n7GE5wQNMyIz5TfLy0
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 17:05:15 GMT
You can be pretty snarky too, Olan. Your way or the highway. While I agree with you in quite a few things you are imperfect just like the rest of us. Your disdain of others is very pronounced and it doesn’t do your cause any good. Are you familiar with the term tone policing? Because I believe that’s what this is. It’s absolutely tone policing and silencing Black women. Peas can be as cruel as they’d like and flanz will still defend their behavior. The language peano used was very intentional. She wants you to see me as an angry Black women so you don’t feel bad about ignoring what I have to say. pilcas can also be found using the same historically inaccurate information peano tried to pass as fact, in the very thread where we are discussing how dangerous it is to speak from a place of ignorance. It blew my mind. A resistance to truth. As educators even! It’s no wonder The Lincoln commission stays so relevant.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 16:38:51 GMT
I’ll give it to you. You are spinning this beautifully.
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 15:38:00 GMT
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 13:54:54 GMT
WTF?!!! That is the most ridiculous argument for not watching a video which literally shows a white man standing up for the two black men. You are not doing your mission any favors. How are we supposed to take what you say seriously when you refuse consider any possibilities beyond your own agenda. I respect reality; rhetoric not so much. Olan and other black women here on the board who may have been hurt by this- I'm sorry, I'm really sorry! I literally gasped when I read this and I'm crying. I will try to speak up, I admit I am usually too scared and don't feel eloquent enough to speak up. I will try harder. 🥺😭 I am sure the rest of this thread isn't any better, but I am compelled to mention this right now. Off to finish the thread. Thank you LiLi. This thread was a difficult read for me too. I remember the head space I was in and what was going on in the world. It is a very accurate picture of how much pushback I received in every thread I started and how gracious my response was despite what Black people were experiencing. 2peas isn’t for the faint at heart but the cruel way in which people were allowed to engage with me completely unchecked should let everyone know how Black women are treated whenever they use their voices. Imagine if it was a teenage Black girl in the classroom who called out peano 1776 remix of history?
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 13:39:30 GMT
“and as I’ve previously said—for my human right to protect my own mental health, I do not engage in double-binds.” peanoWhen I said I don’t watch Black people treated poorly on video as a way to protect my own mental health, do you recall your response? I bumped the thread and as always the board makes posting history chronological. Also the comment you made about Black people not being the only voting group carrying democracy on their backs? Follow the scent and see the ONE pea who thought yep I concur with that statement. Why do you think she did? No one asked you to participate in double binds. Again anyone reading can view our posting history and see exactly how this transpired. Your story doesn’t reflect the progression of how we find ourselves in this apology thread peano. Just like the women who’ve come before you, you cause harm then feign innocence. This isn’t you demonstrating personal growth even if that’s why you believe is happening right now. Immediately after I posted the links that contradicted the lie you told, you responded again. Life didn’t get in the way. You just didn’t address the harm you caused just like you are refusing to do now. That would be an easy fact checking find hunt for the 25 peas who liked your creative writing project. The way peas are allowed to purport a lie as truth in order to spin their arguments against me should be called out every time. Privately or in the thread it happens in. When flanz says: “I don't know your backstory with one another but it seems to me that @peano is genuinely trying to learn and to grow and to engage here with you and us in a sincere way. Also with good intentions.” What she is really saying is: 1. It isn’t important for me to read through the progression of responses and see what actually happened. I’ll trust peano account of events instead 2. I have researched the backstory and I’m going to join the pea in the alternate reality she creates. The one where her intentions are good and mine are less than good. That’s the type of ally-ship a lot of liberal white women provide maybe not realizing it’s the opposite of advocacy. It gives power to the person who needs correcting. And then you end it will love to all? That’s very Kumbaya of you.
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 5:11:36 GMT
❤️too though I am very serious about the lack of restorative sleep for those of you who refuse to atone. Not that you don’t get any sleep but that the sleep you get leaves you as bone tired as a Black woman. Respectfully.
I’ll still bring cake 🤷🏾♀️
And don’t confuse atonement with apology. Not for the living.
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 4:49:24 GMT
It is very high school of me but the immediate support this thread got kinda hurt. Almost 25 peas agree with what she shared. I may put on a brave front but it does sting how little allyship can be found here. What passes without someone calling it out. I am a long time pea. For years I supported various causes of the peas. The second I post mine I’m a mentally ill angry Black woman. I just wanted to come back in and say I'm sorry. People can say some pretty awful things with surprisingly little thought. I see what's been happening on the thread and man, it's rough. Thank you. Sincerely. The life I’m leading right now is very lonely so if I had to walk away from the board tonight thinking everyone was in agreement with her apology...well it would have been rough. Thank you to every single pea who has shown their support. It really means a lot. If you are pea who for whatever reason don’t get it. Listen I know I said I hope you don’t have a moment of restorative sleep in 2021 but please know the moment I see even a little shift in how society treats Black people I’m going to come here and celebrate with you. I don’t get any real pleasure from telling you what a shit job you are doing. None.
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 4:07:37 GMT
WTF?!!! That is the most ridiculous argument for not watching a video which literally shows a white man standing up for the two black men. You are not doing your mission any favors. How are we supposed to take what you say seriously when you refuse consider any possibilities beyond your own agenda. I respect reality; rhetoric not so much. On Sunday, police officers in Seattle shot and killed Charleena Lyles in her home. She died in front of “several children,” according to reports, and her family members say she was pregnant. Just days before, Jeronimo Yanez, the Minnesota police officer who shot and killed Philando Castile during a traffic stop, was acquitted of all charges. Earlier this spring, an unarmed teenager named Jordan Edwards was shot and killed by police as he was driving away from a party. By now, it’s become a sickeningly familiar sequence of events. While the trigger (both literally and metaphorically) is the same, there is an aspect of these events that is frequently overlooked: the effects of the frequent police killings on black Americans’ mental health in the form of racial trauma, a psychological phenomenon that some experts say is similar to post-traumatic stress disorder. “Racial trauma is experiencing psychological symptoms such as anxiety, hypervigilance to threat, or lack of hopefulness for your future as a result of repeated exposure to racism or discrimination,” said Erlanger Turner, an assistant professor of psychology at the University of Houston-Downtown, who is one of only a handful of researchers studying racial trauma. Symptoms can include depression and angry outbursts, much like what is typically seen in those suffering from PTSD. But Turner has observed additional behaviors that are specific to racial trauma, including a reluctance to interact with or general mistrust of white people. Racial trauma can be triggered by many events, but among the most common triggers are continued racial harassment, being a victim of police violence, or witnessing said violence. Even witnessing violence on the news can be damaging. “Research has consistently shown that visual exposure to events can be traumatic,” Turner said. “I particularly believe that the recent news coverage of police shootings of black and brown men will cause some short-time trauma for individuals, especially children. I strongly encourage parents to limit exposure to this type of news coverage.” And yet few researchers are studying the lasting impact of racial trauma. Due to cultural stigma and barriers to care like insurance and jobs that provide time off work, black Americans are substantially less likely to receive mental-health treatment that other ethnic groups. This is particularly problematic because black Americans are 20 percent more likely to suffer from mental illness, according to the National Alliance on Mental Illness. For those who suffer from mental illness, the recycling of brutality and violence on the news may worsen symptoms. Although all negative racial events do not result in trauma, it is important that we are increasingly aware of this topic, and that researchers do more to study its causes and effects. Recently, Science of Us spoke with Turner about his work, and his determination to improve scientific understanding of black mental health. How would you define racial trauma? How new is this concept? Racial trauma or race-related stress is not a new concept. Decades of research have examined the role of racism and discrimination on mental-health functioning. Racial trauma may result from racial harassment, witnessing racial violence, or experiencing institutional racism. The trauma may result in experiencing symptoms of depression, anxiety, low self-esteem, feelings of humiliation, poor concentration, or irritability. How is racial trauma similar to PTSD, and are there any key differences? Similar to PTSD, racial trauma may result in experiencing symptoms of anxiety, hypervigilance, poor concentration, or irritability. The symptoms for both include direct or indirect exposure to a traumatic event. However, the DSM-5 (Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders) notes that PTSD is specific to events such as sexual abuse, serious injury, or exposure to actual or threatened death. As you notice, it does not capture events related to cultural background that may result from racism. What are the signs you should consider speaking to a professional about trauma as a person of color? There are some behaviors you should consider when deciding to seek help. I think the most important is answering the question, “Do you have problems getting through your day or functioning at school or work?” If the answer is “yes,” it will be useful to talk to a professional. Other signs to consider if you should seek help include: mood changes (being more irritable, sad, or angry), feeling withdrawn and not wanting to be around those who you previously enjoyed spending time with, or when you begin to engage in more risky health behaviors (such as drinking or smoking). What environmental factors do you believe contribute most to racial trauma? How prevalent do you believe racial trauma is? That’s a hard question. I don’t recall many studies that have examined rates of racial trauma. Additionally, there is so much continued racism either directly or indirectly it’s hard to recover from one incident before another occurs. Furthermore, not everyone who encounters racial discrimination will experience racial trauma. For example, with the increased media coverage of police brutality in the past few years it has potentially led to increases in trauma or stress. This research is still emerging. However, a recent study was published in April that found police and law-enforcement stress is associated with racial discrimination and depression symptoms among black men. What has your research informed you is most important to keep in mind with racial trauma? Again, not every incident of racism will result in racial trauma. The research shows that those who directly witness police violence or are continually exposed to violent images are at a higher risk of trauma than those who witness others. It’s important for providers and psychologists to assess how the experience has affected the individual. What do you hope to discover next? Currently my research lab is working on a study to look at factors that hinder and promote the use of mental-health services among black Americans. My hope is that the research can help us to better understand stigma, identify ways in which providers can improve their client-therapist relationship, and improve providers ability to engage in cultural competency. I see your current research projects study cultural factors that either promote seeking help or attitudes that limit seeking care. Can you tell us a little about those projects? My current research focuses on mental health among Latino and black Americans. I recently published a paper with a colleague at Santa Clara University on the impact of therapy fears, ethnicity identity, and spirituality on the use of mental-health service among Latino college students. This project will also be exploring these variables among black Americans. Preliminary findings show that religion and spirituality are important to black Americans. These strong spiritual beliefs may also decrease decisions to seek treatment. What do you believe is the most groundbreaking finding you have come across in your time as a researcher? Over the past ten years, my research has focused on access to mental-health treatment. The research consistently shows that a positive attitude is associated with seeking treatment. However, some of my early work found that positive attitudes predicted help-seeking for whites, but not for black Americans. In a recent study that I published with four of my former undergraduate students, we found that fears about therapy was a more important barrier to treatment for ethnic minorities such as black Americans. Specifically, the more people have concerns about being respected by the therapist, working with a competent provider, or having values different than the therapist it increased the likelihood that they will avoid treatment. It really highlights the importance that other things beside stigma impact the use of treatment. We really need to make sure that therapists are engaging in cultural humility. Do you have advice for people of color, in terms of seeking mental-health help? My advice is that if you feel stressed or have difficulty getting through life you should consider meeting with a psychologist or behavioral-health provider. If religion or spirituality are an important aspect of your life it is appropriate and perfectly okay to ask the provider if they can incorporate your values into treatment. This will help you make the decision of whether that is the person you want to work with to address your concerns. Going to therapy should be a mutual relationship and it is my view that providers should collaborate with their clients. Racial Trauma www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/opinion-miller-stephon-clark-police-shooting_us_5ac9b1e0e4b09d0a11948591Black people are expected to take abuse with such grace and when we do our allies awards us "one of the good ones" medals. A white man should have flexed his ultimate position of power and stood between the police and the innocent black men. I am okay if no one else agrees with this method of allyship. But I think if we examine historically the role white people played in racial violence/Civil Rights Movement you'd all be sitting on the actionable change bench with me. I explained why I haven't watched the video. If someone physically stood between and intervened then at the very least the patrons did the right thing. I'm not professing to know what did or did not happen. I'm only sharing what I think should have happened. For black people, police videos are moments of trauma, continual reaffirmations of a reality that we live every day: Our lives do not matter. For white people, they become data points to analyze and critique in order to prove black guilt. As I was trying to explain to you what racial trauma was I was experiencing it. When I look at how disrespectful peano was to me and how respectfully I responded. The audacity you have pretending you tried to hear me out or engage in meaningful dialogue! Like look at this shit? Any link I’ve shared here I likely read it myself. Many times when you were learning about America’s shitty past. So was I. The 1776 Project was very much a thing when I went through school. I was traumatizing myself by trying to educate a bunch of women who have more resources and time than I do. Today I learned that the wives of plantations owners were complicit not by just turning a blind eye but actually instructing their husband to rape and impregnate an enslaved African so that their children would be born around the same time. A lactating woman who can’t nourish her own child (a product of rape) or love a man of her choosing. And to know another woman thought that should be her fate. That was my history lesson for today. If you said something hurtful in this thread AND you liked peano “apology” may my ancestors visit your dreams and share their personal stories with you. Restorative sleep is for the atoning. That’s my wish for you.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 2:16:50 GMT
I am saying this in kindness, as a fellow white woman, but I don’t think we get to tell black women to be patient with us. We can talk to other white women about our development and struggles, but I don’t think black women need to be bothered about it, or that they need to make sure we’re comfortable. If this is addressed to me, that is not what I was saying at all. The only expectation I started with was that my apology would be rejected and that my post might infuriate her more. What I meant to say to Olan is that I didn't like the pattern of our interaction on this board. That I wasn't playing that interaction any more because it was a futile exercise. And to attempt to make a human connection. She isn't ready to do that, so I have to accept that and go on. This has everything to do with where I am in my own personal development that nobody but me gets to decide how and when and why I do it. I'm eminently comfortable with this statement. It's just a fact and a bystander's skin color has nothing to do with it. Infuriate me more? See what you are doing here? Look at the emotion you ascribe to me. Why? In the same way you tried to separate white women from the horrors of enslaving other human beings look how you are trying to separate yourself from your actions.
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 2:01:42 GMT
I'm guessing the OP meant well by her post but wow, just wow! I tried to get thru the entire thing then I got to this gem Holy crap. And all the praise for the post, what the actual fuck! I guess I shouldn't be surprised but honestly for the first time in a long time this post and most of the pea reactions has left me speechless. It is very high school of me but the immediate support this thread got kinda hurt. Almost 25 peas agree with what she shared. I may put on a brave front but it does sting how little allyship can be found here. What passes without someone calling it out. I am a long time pea. For years I supported various causes of the peas. The second I post mine I’m a mentally ill angry Black woman.
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 1:54:31 GMT
Calling a black pea out in a post with only her name in the title so a white woman can get the “wow, you are so awesome white woman” Random example of some random racist cop who had a black kid in his house for few years and now he is best thing ever and not a racist. Telling a black woman over and over and over that she should just shutup and put up with whatever we throw at her because we decided that “we changed”. Shit never will change in this country and this thread is the example for it. In my defense, the original deal started with confusion that I started from posting on the wrong thread, that got caught in the crossfire of somebody else getting dragged in inadvertently, so I thought it best to cut my losses and start a whole new thread. Possibly it was a miscalculation, possibly not. Mea culpa. If Eddie S. Glaude Jr. can be cautiously optimistic, I guess I can too. You wanted to avoid the other thread because your smug was so strong. You couldn’t even title this.
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 1:53:32 GMT
I am saying this in kindness, as a fellow white woman, but I don’t think we get to tell black women to be patient with us. We can talk to other white women about our development and struggles, but I don’t think black women need to be bothered about it, or that they need to make sure we’re comfortable. If this is addressed to me, that is not what I was saying at all. The only expectation I started with was that my apology would be rejected and that my post might infuriate her more. What I meant to say to Olan is that I didn't like the pattern of our interaction on this board. That I wasn't playing that interaction any more because it was a futile exercise. And to attempt to make a human connection. She isn't ready to do that, so I have to accept that and go on. This has everything to do with where I am in my own personal development that nobody but me gets to decide how and when and why I do it. I'm eminently comfortable with this statement. It's just a fact and a bystander's skin color has nothing to do with it. I appreciate the candor. I would stew about the motives and now I can just chalk it up to ummm...predictable behavior. FTR I disagree with the “if you don’t like things, why stay” it slaps of 45 supporters telling everyone to like it or leave. If I leave who will continue posting “Black issues” Olan I appreciate the info you post and the links. I have found them valuable. But that you feel you are the annointed savior of the Karens of 2 Peas is a bit much. I am eminently capable of edumacating myself by my own little self. You are ready to make a human connection and I’m rejecting the effort? Is that the lie you are trying to pass as truth now? You made a comment you should have kept to yourself and now I’m the bad guy. Playing what futile exercise? You could just avoid me you know. Instead you are in the Pass the Buck thread and in the 2020 version of it too. Still talking reckless. Unprompted. Your Karen savior comment. Was I addressing you? Was there some dialogue between us that I’m missing? Come on.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 1:44:22 GMT
I am saying this in kindness, as a fellow white woman, but I don’t think we get to tell black women to be patient with us. We can talk to other white women about our development and struggles, but I don’t think black women need to be bothered about it, or that they need to make sure we’re comfortable. I appreciate you saying this. I want to honor my ancestors by being as hopeful as they must have been but it’s pretty grim looking right now. The number of Black people killed by police between 2016-2020 was just insane. The number of openly racist people holding very high positions in our government. The maternal health issue. The babies dying. The school to prison pipleline. The wealth/wage gap. It’s a lot. And that’s like 0.5% of the problem. I know you’ve heard someone say it but really place yourself in the shoes of Black people. How polite would you be? How patiently would you wait? Do you see how quickly someone chimed in to tell peano she has been seen and heard? Don’t you think Black people deserve the same? You do recognize the many ways we’ve tried to be seen and heard right? It is what it is? That’s 48 hours of reflection?
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 1:19:32 GMT
May truth and personal responsibility dwell in you.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 1:14:48 GMT
Please stop calling it my cause as if my ask is that you click a link and support an animal shelter or something!
Who just tried to upend the election process and stormed the Capitol? You’ve gotta be paying attention. No? When you say it’s my way or the highway...how do you perceive my way? Just so there is clarity about what you think is being asked of you!
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 1:08:35 GMT
If I trigger you, you have work to do. Period. Sit with those feelings before you engage in a personal attack or want to be snarky. I do this work all the time. How wonderful it must feel to be seen and heard You can be pretty snarky too, Olan. Your way or the highway. While I agree with you in quite a few things you are imperfect just like the rest of us. Your disdain of others is very pronounced and it doesn’t do your cause any good. Absolutely I can be. Though I treat peas way better than I’ve been treated. Check the thread history okay! And I stand by every snarky comment I’ve said. Firmly. No one will quote me but if they did I’d double down. A Hint...you’d be pissed too.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 1:06:16 GMT
And the Fresh Farms kid who changed this LEO perception of Black people? Why did he have to do that work? How would he describe that experience? Why can’t White people be anti-racist before a Blind Side moment? As a Black kid who grew up in a predominantly white neighborhood...when I’ve had someone declare me a “good one” over dinner it felt like shit. Absolute shit. I remember coming home and realizing my dad cooked my favorite meal. I had missed it just to get insulted and eat something way less palatable. Explains why I love barking “NOT HIGH ENOUGH BITCHES”. The blind rage I feel 🥱
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Olan
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Jan 27, 2021 0:45:54 GMT
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 0:45:54 GMT
This summer, my physical therapist and I bonded over our mutual contempt for our now former president. As she kneaded my muscles, the topic of race came up, as it was the peak of the George Floyd protests popping up all over the country. She said, “My brother-in-law, (ironically a cop), used to be very racist, but he changed.” This was intriguing to me, so I asked how that happened, a twinge of hope creeping into my heart that he might have the secret key to help solve our national shame. She said, “My sister decided that they were going to have a Fresh Air Fund kid stay with them.” For those who don’t know, the Fresh Air Fund arranges for kids who live in cities to spend a few weeks in the summer with suburban families who are often, but not always white. The kids are typically Black or Hispanic, and are introduced to typical suburban summer activities like day camps, swimming, and the family vacation etc. Ideally, the Fresh Air kids are paired with suburban children of similar ages. My PT said that his experience of actually getting to know a person of color transformed him. He began to know a real person, not a cardboard emblem of what his parents, the media, and the greater society told him about Black people. Black people became real human beings with real thoughts and feelings just like his. This child became one of his own, and returned to them subsequent summers until he was out of school. I’m probably missing something, but what is the point of the story of you PT’s brother-in-law? Are you saying this “formerly” “very racist” cop was somehow reformed because he interacted with an actual black person? I wonder if you ever gave any thoughts about the massive damage this “very racist” cop likely caused black people before he was ‘reformed’? Is there any information about what he has done to correct the fact that his department allowed a “very racist” cop out on the streets with a badge and a gun? Unrelated story: I had to fire an employee (pre-pandemic, I’m not totally heartless). This employee was hired to do a task (write grants), and they missed 2 major deadlines. They did successfully submit other grants, but they were still fired. Why? Because making a perfunctory effort wasn’t good enough. It seems like some people want accolades for barely acknowledging the humanity of another race, but if they are only doing it for the praise, the unauthentic, slapdash effort isn’t going to win any awards. I’m an actual black person too. Just to throw that out there. I appreciate the candor. I would stew about the motives and now I can just chalk it up to ummm...predictable behavior. FTR I disagree with the “if you don’t like things, why stay” it slaps of 45 supporters telling everyone to like it or leave. If I leave who will continue posting “Black issues” Olan I appreciate the info you post and the links. I have found them valuable. But that you feel you are the annointed savior of the Karens of 2 Peas is a bit much. I am eminently capable of edumacating myself by my own little self.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 27, 2021 0:34:48 GMT
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 26, 2021 23:59:33 GMT
How much time could one possibly need to own having passed off historically inaccurate information as fact? This a 2 page thread from August 2020. You don’t have to sift through many responses to see the flow the dialogue took. There was no savior complex or even insistence you do the work in fact I did all the leg work for you. Graciously admitting you were wrong should have happened at time. Even a like would be acknowledgement. Instead in January 2021 you tell me I have a savior complex and am a bit much. You go even further and say you can educate yourself without my help. Totally unprompted by the way. In 2018 I posted scientific information about the physiological damage Black people go through watching one another experience racial violence. It’s conditioning and I stand by that statement. If peano wants to address anything let’s address that! What was rhetoric and what was reality? Who decides? What do you think my mission was in 2018? When you say I am doing it no favors, what did you mean? What could have happened if peas were receptive regardless of how little they liked Olan As I’ve said I am committed to ensuring peas stand by the words they type. Look at the responses and the way people spoke to me. Look at o say the last year and then back to how urgent my calls to action were beginning in 2016. Savior complex? Ummm for my own black ass life. I urged everyone to start looking for ways to become more anti racist before it was trending. If magic shaving powder became a pea thing why couldn’t white women deeply invested in ending racism become a thing too? FTR She started another thread. Her apology was very white women-esque. If you take offense to that I don’t know what to tell ya. And she got a standing ovation. A soliloquy with no regard for harm caused. A blame game with no proof. Those questions I asked? It was soliloquy so answering them didn’t fit the theme. A utterly half assed apology painting me to be this horrible undeserving Black woman who makes you jump and then tells you didn’t jump high enough. That way someone can say she took the high road by even offering an apology. It’s like no one gets it. And when you do the shift will be apparent. Black people have been in a constant loop of mistreatment and you guys are acting like we’ve got all the time in the world to fix this. People are dying. I just don’t get it.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 26, 2021 23:39:26 GMT
I invite anyone who believes I have a savior complex to place me on ignore and never engage with me. I also invite being called out whenever I attack someone social justice muscle and say their activism isn’t enough. Be sure it isn’t white guilt at play and use the quote feature. Link the thread too. OlanAs always you will find that I do not pussyfoot around an issue. This is very high stakes for me. It was when I started my first “black issues” thread and changed the way I participated here. Acknowledge the work that needs to be done or at the very least stop personally attacking me when I point out how long we’ve got to go. Look at this very thread as a barometer for progress.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 26, 2021 22:37:14 GMT
She thought you were calling her out and got a bit worried is all.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 26, 2021 22:34:03 GMT
I get wanting to do slightly better than someone else being some human nature theory but I think enslaving Africans rises to levels much greater than making sure someone was beneath you. The treatment was heinous.
When I post studies about black babies dying...refuting, questioning excusing. When I’ve posted studies about white women and reporting rape more refuting questioning excusing personal attacks When I post a study about how police speak to black people during traffic stops again more refuting excusing and personal attacks Same for the studies about how girls are treating in school environments 🤷🏾♀️
I think the low man on the totem pole thing doesn’t explain away how white women were able to behave in the way that they did. Like not at all. That level of hate doesn’t really go hand in hand with any human nature argument if you ask me. I think figuring that out would lead us to understanding the complicity of todays white women. Like Toni Morrison said examining what enslaving Africans did to the psyche of white people is a study that needs conducting.
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Olan
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Post by Olan on Jan 26, 2021 20:19:52 GMT
White women had very little power on their own at that time. Perhaps they might try to influence their husbands but more often than not they would have been told to ga back to managing the household. I see it a little differently. White women give up their power to White men. Both now and throughout history. They do so in exchange for status, financial advantage and comfort. It's always the easier path, and nearly every right wing movement throughout history - the same groups who dehumanize POC, lgbt groups, religious minorities, etc - actively reinforce the "traditional" roles of women as passive homemakers whose only true role is motherhood. It's a lie. Women have been standing up long before Feminism was a concept, and surviving. The truth is that White Supremacy cannot survive without the complicity of White women, whether that complicity is active or passive. Make no mistake, White Supremacists work hard to enforce this passive mentality: they attack education, they shame and vilify White women who step out of the box, who use their voices and privilege to help the marginalized and oppressed, and call them whores, race traitors, communists, unAmerican - the invective is endless. Yet if all White women disrupted the system together, it would fall tomorrow. This is a really informative article www.vox.com/platform/amp/2021/1/15/22231079/capitol-riot-women-qanon-white-supremacyElizabeth Tyler didn’t have to take her power back from anyone. She was born with it. We’ve got to stop painting white women out to be victims. Look at the last administration 👀
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